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Welcome Aboard IHC185™ Internet Horology Club 185 IHC185™ Discussion Site Main Page Horological Discussions, Questions and Answers Pocket Watch Discussions Early Elgin B. W. Raymond in heavy 18K hunter case!
Internet Horology Club 185 IHC185™ Discussion Site Main Page Horological Discussions, Questions and Answers Pocket Watch Discussions Early Elgin B. W. Raymond in heavy 18K hunter case!Go | New Topic | Find-Or-Search | Notify | Tools | Reply to Post | |
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I just came into posession of this watch and have many questions. I'll tell you what I know and then will throw it out for discussion. The movement is an Elgin BWRaymond, serial # 335152, key wind AND stem wind (could this be an Abbot's stem wind conversion?), lever set(lever at 26 minute mark). The dust band is engraved "MOSELEY'S PAT. SEP. 21, '69". It also says patent pinion and adjusted on the gilded movememt. By the way, it winds, sets and runs very well! The case is marked "D&Co. K18" serial #8114. The case is engraved similarly on both covers, the hinges are tight and there are no dings, marks or dents. The crystal is missing but the bezel is excellent. There is no winding hole in the cuvette. The heavy, empty case weighs 2.75 ounces. What do I have?????? Thanks, Jon  | ||
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I forgot to mention that the watch is 18 size. Jon | |||
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| IHC President Life Member  |
Nice acquisition Jon, All the 18 and 16-size B. W. Raymonds were considered to have been High-Grade Railroad Watches at the time of production, among the better watches that Elgin produced. As you are likely aware Benjamin W. Raymond was a Chicago banker put together financing to start the National Watch Company which became a major employer and boosted the economy in Elgin, Illinois and the surrounding area for many years. The Elgin Website and Database are not currently operational so we will find movement specifics in "American Pocket Watches Serial Number and Grade Book" the 1993 Edition. Your number 335152 is listed as from a run consisting of 335001 through 337000 in 1874 and it is a Grade 70 of which some 74,500 were produced in 51 runs. The first Grade 70 number was 246501 and 6148000 the last one made. As you mentioned it is an 18-size Hunter, Gilt Finish, Model 2, Lever-Set, 17-Jewel movement. All three hands are entirely correct, they are a properly matched set. The "Elgin Nat'l Watch Co." dial signature is also exactly what we should find, in fact your movement is correct right down to the original Dust-Band being in place. I believe by the time your watch was produced the winding arbor was considered more of a let-down device for servicing rather than for general winding of the watch. If I am correct, that would explain the absence of a winding access hole in the cuvette. Your case marked "D. & Co." is clearly 18K Solid Gold and a worthwhile survivor! On the case maker's name the closest reference I could locate is on page 58 of the Roy Ehrhardt "Trade Marks" book, 1976 Edition. There we find the W. F. Doll Company of New York being in business of manufacturing watch cases from 1857-1872 at that location. It is interesting that Doll then became the "Duhme & Co." a Case Manufacturer in Cincinnati, Ohio after that time which could account for the "D. & Co." markings on your case. Remember, Trade Marks are something that would likely be used by only one company. Without question you have a very interesting watch that is most worthy of preservation. Let us see if others have additional information or observations. Lindell  | |||
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Lindell, Thanks for the interesting comments. Do you know what "Moseley's Patent" refers to? Thanks, Jon | |||
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| IHC President Life Member |
Glad to be of at least some assistance.  Moseley held several patents, one was for the "Patent Pinion" and that regulator arrangement on your watch was also one of his. The particular style of dust ring used on your watch was evidently Moseley's work as well. Here are a few of the various Moseley Patents found searching "Charles Moseley" at the US Patent Office... 45512____Tool, Watch Barrel Closer_____1864 77078____Watch Cock or Bridge________1868 89328____Watch Mainspring Ratchet_____1869 95128____Watch Dustproof Movement___1869* 104756___Watch Safety Pinion_________1870* 157021___Watch Regulator____________1874* The last three shown above* are most likely the Dust-Band, Safety-Pinion and Regulator on your watch. Those three and an additional one, number 185867 from 1877 are assigned to the Elgin National Watch Company. That was common practice then and now to assign patents to the company one works for. These are among the many resources available here... CLICK FOR: IHC185™ Technical Library, Serial Numbers and Site Links Lindell | |||
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Lindell, Somehow I missed that valuable resource. Thanks again, Jon | |||
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Welcome Aboard IHC185™ Internet Horology Club 185 IHC185™ Discussion Site Main Page Horological Discussions, Questions and Answers Pocket Watch Discussions Early Elgin B. W. Raymond in heavy 18K hunter case!
Internet Horology Club 185 IHC185™ Discussion Site Main Page Horological Discussions, Questions and Answers Pocket Watch Discussions Early Elgin B. W. Raymond in heavy 18K hunter case!©2002-2023 Internet Horology Club 185™ - Lindell V. Riddle President - All Rights Reserved Worldwide
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