From time to time you will see the Elgin grade 279 Overland show up on big auction site but not too many of the hunter version (278). I was wondering if all of the 278s were Overlands or did you see what Elgin did on some runs like the 353 where some were marked ENWC, GMW or Overland. The yellow book shows a production of only 2K but no insight if the entire run was marked Overland.

I tried to do some web searches on this grade but not much turns up.

I remember a writeup in one of the 1980's xxxxx Journals discussing the entire "Overland" issue from Elgin. The main thrust of that article was on the relevance of these movements as RR adjusted. The name brings to mind Stage coaches, but then Railroads are definetly "Overland" as well.

The "Gold Book" only lists Overlands as Open Face, suggesting Hunters are pretty rare.

Elgin made the Overland over a few grades that are nearly all 17j versions that I could find. You don't see much in the way of hunters. I think Ms Gilbert has/had a grade 163 Overland hunter (8K made) but other than hers not much pops up.

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There's two of them on flea bay right now. One of them is a hunter, though it's in the wrong type of case, and it needs a set of proper hands. I looked it up, and it is a grade 163, model 2, made in 1897. Brad

The OF one on ebay is a 279, the sidewinder as you said is a grade 163. The 163 only has the "Overland" on it, the 278/279 has "Overland" and then "Elgin National Watch Co". There are two hunters the 163/164 and then the pendant set OF 165/166. The earlier hunters 163/164 were made in greater numbers than the 278.

I see. Thanks Claude.

Brad that is the one thing that I miss about the old "Elgin" site. Wayne would footnote on the grades what names appeared on the grade, sometimes more than one appeared.

It appears that Elgin used the brand name Overland, sparingly and for just a short segment of time compared to the names Raymond, Father Time, and Veritas. I know that the 163 was branded Overland, along with the 278/279 and the I think Overland appeared on the 353 but not all of the runs, GMW and just Elgin Nat'l Watch Co appeared on others.

Hind sight is always 20/20 but I should have copied the details of the grades that Wayne had determined over the years that are lost with the new Elgin site.

And a side note, the 165 was marked Overland and it was converted to a lever set like the 150/277 so both the 165/265 are marked Overlands, 165 being PS and the 265 being LS.

The 166 was upjeweled and converted to the LS 266 and the 266 was marked "Father Time", I think the 166 was unmarked and I am not sure what marking the grade 164 hunter had.

I've got two grade 353 Overlands. But, from what I've read, they could also be marked G.M. Wheeler, etc...
I wish that we could set up something dedicated to Elgin here. BTW...I'd just about kill for a dial like your hunter is fronting. As you know, mine has a double sunk early roman numeral job on it. And I'm looking for a newer arabic. They're not that easy to find lately. Brad

Brad the dial on this one, if it has any hairlines I would have to look hard with a magnifier to see them, offhand I don't think it has any. Mine is a hunter so Arabic or Roman is not an issue for me. If you have a Roman dial of the same DS type either <<Elgin>> or Elgin in the same condition I have no issues doing a dial swap. Post a picture of the dial you have, then we can go from there.

I think on this one I paid about $130 total, the case looked sad, like it had not been cleaned in a century, so I cleaned it. Other than some wear through on the pendant from winding the case is brass free. It has a slight ding/scratch that you can see in the second case picture, some very minor depressions on the other lid but nothing to get excited about and the typical scratching you see on hunters near the inner dust cover opeing area.
The movement is keeping good time so for what I paid I am satisfied.

Dang it all! Mine is the earlier "Elgin Natl Watch Co.". Thanks anyway though Claude. Regards, Brad