This is a customer’s watch. It is a family piece. He has requested me to give him the current retail and wholesale value for it. As most of you know I have a better feel for wristwatches prices and values than pocket watches so I thought I would ask the pocket watch experts for your valued input and help. I will send a link to this thread to my customer so he can follow along and see your opinions. I thought that you would all enjoy seeing one that is not in any way common.
The current Shugart book (page 228) shows $1600.00 to $3200.00 for one in a 14k non-Hamilton case but makes no reference to one in a 14K Hamilton case.
Serial number 855169
Overall condition is good. No dents in the case and a new glass crystal.
The flaws
1 - small hairline on the dial at 8 the minute marker
2 – the bow has some wear from caring the watch
3 – some scratches around the thumb lift for the bezel
4 – two blemishes on the mainspring-winding wheel, and 2 small scratches on the movement from previous service.
This is a watch that saw use and to my knowledge does not have the original boxes or papers. Overall I would rate it as an 8 on a scale of 1 to 10 however I would appreciate and enjoy hearing all your comments and feedback.

2

3 sorry I could not get a good shot of the 14K mark

4

I'd make this watch a solid "Ex-Fn" which Shugart values at $2200 plus an appropriate premium for it being a Hamilton case -- I'd say at least another $500. That's my opinion. What do others think?

Rich,

Thanks for showing this very nice watch!

Being that it is a family piece adds sentimental value, which money cannot buy.

The customer that owns this watch is indeed a fortunate individual.

I havce a virtually identical watch that I purchased at a J&H sale 4 years ago for $1600.

If you want to compare them the url for my 950 is http://www.awco.org/Lancaster/950/950_presentation.htm

I've got a very nice 950 "P" which housed in a great conditioned Solid 14K OF non - Hamilton K.W.C. Co.case. The serial 1152142 shows it to made from a run of 900 PS movements which were made around 1914.


Rich, since I've estimated my watch to be valued about $2200.00/$2500.00 I'd certainly support
Ed Parson's opinion that a $500.00 premium for a 14K Hamilton case like the one you've shown
would be a pretty good estimate.

Figure I

Figure II

Just my opinion here ... but I think the "14K not Hamilton case" listing in the Shugart guide has some flaws and is questionable.

As the guide now reads, this 950 in "Ex-Fn" condition is given a value of $1100 with a gold-filled case, but $2200 with this 14K. But just below on the same page, an Ex-Fn 952 in gold-filled is given a $400 value and in 14K is given $700.

Now if I read correctly and the only difference for this pair of listings for each grade is the same generic 14K gold case w/out Hamilton markings in "Ex-Fn" condition, why the $1100 spread on the 950 yet only a $300 spread on the 952?

Does this make sense? Does the same 14K case with no factory markings pick up $800 more in value by housing a 950 rather than a 952? Should there be an $800 incentive for the recasing of a 950 into any 14K case that doesn't have Hamilton markings?

Again just my opinion, but I don't think so.

Fred

p.s. Back to Rich's watch, even though it is a few years ago I think the sale mentioned in Tom's post above may be a good point of reference as it is from a well-known and attended auction and (I think it's safe to say! ) was purchased by an informed buyer.

I think I have to agree with Lindell,I suspect the Shugart entry may be incorrect. However having said this, I think it's reasonable to assume the price of 950's in any type of good case will continue to climb.

Maybe we could propose all future "personal retirement plans" should include some portion of your holdings be in good old, Railroad Pocket Watches !!!
They are certainly a much better investment than the stockmarket.

How uncommon are the 14k early Hamilton cases?

Excellent question Tony, I would say only around 1 percent of Hamilton watches had a Hamilton solid gold case over all. Of course that would vary with certain grades and at certain periods of time in the 20th century due to economic times. Wristwatches are going to have a much higher percentage, but to broadly answer your question, they are very uncommon, don't show up every week and they are a highly sought out item in today's market. They command a very nice premium when high condition is present. .. just my opinion. Any others want to chime in on a guess? Happy Hunting!

in my opinion...its a 5-600 dollar movement and a 150-200 dollar dial..... just how much is the case worth? i think toms assesment is right on the money...then again i am a cheapskate

btw.. very nice pictures rich

In my opinion, $1500 - $1800 depending on condition.

I could be wrong but I do not think Tom, Lindell, or Dave would sell their 14K Hamilton for $1,800.
Just a thought.

Tony,
I'll just speak for myself, I KNOW I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T SELL FOR THE PRICE YOU QUOTED

Five years ago I bought a stunning 950 in a non-Hamilton 14k case. I bought it from a watch repairman for $900. Everyone in my chapter had a shot at the watch but declined because they thought the price was outrageous. I would not take $2000 for the watch today. The case is gorgeous as is the movement. The old saw "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is still valid.

Jerry Freedman

I don't know what was the standard from Hamilton, but, in my opinion, the pendant set movements cased as presentation pieces should have the more elegant dial rather than the more functional one. I think this one is correct and it contributed quite a bit to my valuation of the watch.

Thank you Lindell for your dilligence in researching the various combinations of the 950 and for finding and explaining when the dial was most likely introduced.