I finally picked up an Elgin 246 to compliment the other "lace doily" movements. I got a couple other movements out of the safe deposit box to try to photograph. Not very good, but I'll try sometime later when I get them out again.

While I'm at it, I'll add a quartet of 3fb's

Those are really nice looking watches.

I love being able to see the gear train in action.

nice drooling all over my keyboard.

Of the 4 Doileys the 246 is the hardest to find, the 155/161 (non-3 finger versions) are a bit easier with the 155 as easiest, then the 161 and 243 in the middle (4000) with the 246 (2000 made). For fancy Elgin 3 fingers only the 341 is made in equal or less than the 246 with the OF 160 also made in low numbers and with dished wheels much like the 156/162. I would imagine that these early 3 finger movements were adjusted to 3 positions but the later 341 (2000 made) were marked adj5p and BWR on the 2nd run.
My 246

This is a fairly newbie question but I just wanted to ask, what exactly makes these watches Doileys? is it the type of damaskeening? Sorry for having to ask the simple questions,
Joe

It's because of the pattern on the winding wheels which are reminiscent of a lace doily.

doily

As far as I know only the 155/161 (non-finger) and the 243/246 (3 finger) have this design on the wind wheels. When the 155/161 came out they were very high grade movements just below the 156/162 21j grades. Some 155/161's have a gold/gold allow escape wheel where the 243/246 have the typical steel escape wheel. Elgin collectors will pick them up when they can but probably most others will let them pass by and you can usually pick them up (more common ones) for under $150 at times. I only have one 246 but multiples of the others. Saying more common might be a bit of a stretch since the greatest production of any of the grades was 6K, least down to 2K.

In Kevin's first photo posted are the later doileys the grade 243 and 246. His second photo appears to be the 246, a 162 (21j) a grade 280 or 270 but I think it is a 270 (sometimes marked Veritas) and the other I am not quite sure of.

Some 21j Elgin Grade 270 "Veritas" watches look just like the "Lace Doilies," but they are a lesser grade. See the photo below of one that I sold a few years ago.

Claude G. says that "Elgin collectors will pick [lace doilies] up when they can but probably most others will let them pass by and you can usually pick them up (more common ones) for under $150 at times." I am not sure I agree.

I think there is limited demand today for 99% of the pocket watches offered for sale. Demand is higher for watches that have a following. Simply by virtue of being in a well-known category, I think the lace doilies command a premium. Here's what I have paid for my few examples, all in very good condition, except as noted: (1) Grade 155 in 14k Hayden Wheeler case -- $1,150 in 2012; (2) Grade 155 movement -- $227.50 in 2010; (3) Grade 161 in 14k YGF Dueber case -- $400 in 2013; (4) Grade 243 in 14k DuBois case -- $995 in 2011; (5) Grade 246 in 14k YGF B.W.C.Co. case -- $820 in 2008, but returned to seller because of undisclosed dial issues.

is this one doily?

or is this one?

Ethan that 246 with CD Peacock dial with a 25yr case total cost with shipping ~$300


With the exception of the 246 that was at the 300 mark my 243 that is in a beautiful 25yr hunter case that looks as nice as the 246 case shown with a fancy glass dial fell between 250-300. The others were fell into the 150-200 range with the condition of the movement, case and such being very good to excellent. I'll have to photograph all of them together and let people judge the condition but the 246 was top in price paid.

In the case of your 270, the 270 typically has either the dished wheels or the style shown in Kevin's 2nd photo pose (lower right). Someone probably swapped wind wheels with a 243 or 246 in the past since they would be logical candidates.
If the lace doiley wheels were a trend on the 270, they would also probably show up on the 280 since it is a 17j version vs the 270 being a 21j version. The 270 was a short run movement but none of the catalog ads show the lace wheels and other than your movement they do not randomly show up on the 270 or 280.
Or someone liked the looked and just ordered replacement wheels and installed them.
None of my lace Elgins have solid gold cases, typically either 20 or 25yr so that is why the prices are not approaching 4 digits.

I thought I'd show the 3/4 plate movements, the 155 and 161.