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Welcome Aboard IHC185™ Internet Horology Club 185 IHC185™ Discussion Site Main Page Horological Discussions, Questions and Answers Pocket Watch Discussions 18s Hunting Case
Internet Horology Club 185 IHC185™ Discussion Site Main Page Horological Discussions, Questions and Answers Pocket Watch Discussions 18s Hunting CaseGo | New Topic | Find-Or-Search | Notify | Tools | Reply to Post | |
| IHC Member 525 |
I have an 18s hunting case with a Waltham 77 model movement fitted. I looks to be gold filled but the only markings are a crown, warranted & its number 16531. The movement dates from 1884. Can anyone help me to identify the material of the case. Three pictures show front, back & the markings.  | ||
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| IHC Member 1110 |
Derek, your nice looking case should be gold filled,due to the fact that it says "warranted" and no karat marking.I'm not sure who's "Crown" mark that is though, Philadelphia Watch Case Co. and Muhr's used a Crown mark, but not quite the same as yours.Hopefully one of the other guys on here will know and chime in.Happy New Year!...Ted. | |||
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| IHC President Life Member  |
Well Derek, This will be somewhat long, but what follows is important and I hope at least some of you will find it interesting... as Horological History. I can only build on Ted's incisive comments, because like Ted, most of us looking at the "Crown" image immediately think of Philadelphia Watch Case Company and those many, many cases with the Crown Trade-Marks. But... those cases had a crown with a Maltese Cross above or "surmounted" on (above) the crown and Derek's clearly has a Star above the crown. In going as far back as I could using as my primary source "History of the American Watch Case" compiled by Warren H. Niebling—which is a formidable volume last printed in 1971 and to my knowledge long out-of-print but nonetheless very helpful in case-design and trademark research—I found what I believe to be Derek's case. Niebling lists, on page 70 of his book an early Trade-Mark consisting of the... "combined figures of a Crown and Star, the Crown and Star Trade-Mark claimed to have been in continuous use by M. H. Cronin of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania." Cronin filed a Trade-Mark application on June 29, 1882 and his Crown and Star Trade Mark number 9,567 for use on 20 and 25 Year Gold-Filled Cases was registered on July 29, 1882 little more than a month later. This all fits rather neatly with the perceived as 1884 production of Derek's Model 77 Waltham movement. That indicates a strong likelihood that Derek's watch may in fact be an original combination. Waltham movement, cased and timed by the retail jeweler in what is apparently a Cronin Case. Oh, and about Mr. Cronin, apparently his company was just a bit later absorbed into the Philadelphia Watch Case Company which in 1885 registered the Trade-Mark we are familiar with, that of Crown with a Maltese Cross which apparently began with Muhr Watch Case Company, which was also absorbed into Philadelphia. And so the previous Crown and Star was discontinued in favor of the Crown and Maltese Cross we are familiar with seeing on so very many Philadelphia-Branded Cases. Within the following decade Philadelphia and its Trade-Marks would be used for years to come as part of Keystone which would thrive until the mid-1950s when Star Watch Case Company bought them out to become the last surviving United States-Based Watch Case manufacturer. And the beat goes on... Lindell  | |||
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| IHC Member 525 |
Many thanks Lindell & Ted. To think I have a watch which MAY be in its original case from 1884 takes some beating. The case has no brass whatsoever & looks like new. Best wishes for 2019 to all. Dek | |||
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