I just aquired a nice 18s 240 grade 19J B.W.R. to go with the 16S 19J BWR I already had.It is an earlier one with black lettering and no 5 position marking.(11 million SN). The question I have is, didn't some of these have diamond endstones on the balance?Mine does not, I wonder if anyone would know if they ever did have them.I think Elgin and Waltham were trying to outdo each other at that time ,with the Vanguards having the diamond caps....Thanks again!

They show up in Shugart's book so I would think some do and in regards to the Vanguards some do and some don't. I was lucky enough that my 21j Vanguard 18s does have the diamond end stone. I have had conversations on the same topic in regards to the Vanguard. This link might help also.

http://elginwatches.org/scans/...Nolting/m_pg_E2.html

I believe there were several models with diamond endstones.

My 19j 1904 model 240 has them, as well as my 21j 1910 Father Time model 367.

Regards! Mark

Thanks Mark & Claude...I have the same ad as in the Elgin site link, and it does show diamond balance caps in the 19J, but mine being a little older must have been before they started with them.And Claude, I also have a 21J Vanguard 18S that also has the diamonds.Waltham ads for the Vanguard say that it was the finest 18S made, I think they were right.An 18s Vanguard really is a beautiful watch.

I forgot something, I wonder if Elgin realized at the time they came out with these 3/4 plate 18 sizes,that they were way ahead of their time, and beig thinner, they probably gave some business to the case companies ,because you could use a little thinner case.

I have this 19 Jewel S/N 14411515 Gr 240 with Diamond end caps c.a. 1909. I am guessing that these diamond capped versions were shuffeled in and out as the need to compete and sell would dictate. I think this guy started more than a few trains.

Dave, I may be parading my ignorance, but your 19j Elgin appears to have a jeweled main barrel as well as diamond end caps. I thought that with 19j it would be one or the other.

Theodore, here is a picture of my BWR 240. It has diamond endstones.
Regards Peter

On some Elgin models, at the time 17 was considered "fully jeweled" so they added the extra two jewels to the motor barrel for 19. That was a trend that changed a bit and you didn't see a jeweled motor barrel until you got to 23j types. I am not sure if this happened because of more stringent requirements or if other brands were not jeweling the motor barrel. If I am not mistaken you see this in some Elgin 16 sizes also. Theo on the topic of the the 18s 21j 1892 Vanguard it is a great watch with no argument from my side, I only wish I had a 23j or a hunter version of it.

Charles, the Diamond Cap jewels replaced the Ruby/Sapphire balance wheel cap jewels and remain part of the 7 jewel Escapement/balance wheel set normally associated with a "basic" 7 Jewel movement. To make up the 19 Jewel movement then there are 5 pairs of Jewels for the Motor ("main"), Second, Third, fourth and Escape wheels. Sadly most of the time the 21 Jewel version swapped out the Jeweled motor wheel for two mor pairs of (dust cover?) cap jewels for the escape and Pallet fork pivots. I join the many who consider that there was no merit at all for capping the oscillating escapement pallet jewel except for raising the Jewel count, and that pair would have better remained for the motor.

I Think Mr. W.C. Ball was right about anything over 17 jewels was not necessary,but in my humble opinion a 19J with a jeweled motor barrel, like these B.W. Raymonds, ARE the ultimate railroad watch.Thanks!

My small collection, despite my large and growing ignorance overall, might shed some more light on diamond cap stones in these fine 19 jewel B.W. Raymond watches. The Grade 240 is my favorite pocket watch, hand-sized 18s and three-quarter plate, jeweled motor barrel.

Among my three Elgin grade 240 watches, all have ruby jeweled motor barrels, but only two have diamond caps. Oldest is a first-run made in 1899, serial number 8579501, with no diamond cap stone, and with black lettering. And like the one that started this discussion owned by Theodore, it is not marked as adjusted 5 positions.

The next two, made in 1908, serial no. 13670708, and in 1909, serial no. 14175485, have diamond cap stones, and gold lettering.

So sometime between 1899 (my first run watch) and 1904 (Peter's watch, no. 11628047, above), the diamond end stone was added. We need more examples from those in-between years to nail this down.

From my watches, only the newest one from 1909 has the "ADJUSTED 5 POSITIONS" gold letter marking, and was used by my grandfather throughout his 1922-1956 career with the Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad in Denison and Waco, Texas. He bought it used. It's about as beat-up on the dial as you can imagine from a man crawling over and inside steam and diesel engines for a lifetime of work. I've bought replacement dial and case, but can't bring myself to change my grandfather's true railroad watch, after thinking it over. What improvement would that make? I'd rather have it exactly the way he carried it to work through the 1920s, 30s, 40s and half of the 1950s. This watch movement hasn't been cleaned, and may not be, because it smells just like the Katy railroad shop did, and like my grandfather's overalls when I climbed up on his lap to search his bib pockets for nickels and dimes, hauling out this old watch by its chain. It was our routine when he came home from work (I lived next door).

All three of these grade 240 Elgins have the identical double-sunk Elgin enamel dial (one is marginal minutes). These grade 240 dials have different feet positions from other 18s Elgins, so be careful if you're looking for a replacement.

John

My Elgin Grade 240 is one of my favorites. It's my first E-bay watch. It cleaned up beautifully and, aside from some very minor pocket wear, looks like new. I have no idea when it was last serviced but it keeps near perfect time.

It's SN 15204114 circa 1910. It has a ruby end stone, ruby jeweled motor barel, gold lettering, and is marked "ADJUSTED TO 5 POSITIONS".

The thinner cased 3/4 plate 18s movement fits into my hand very comfortably. It's just a great watch.

John there are watches that one collects and there are watches that have so many memories wrap up inside that makes them magical, yours has family history and makes it worth even more no matter what the condition, not for the value of the watch but for the value of the memories. I have my father's watch, it went though college with me (proudly carrying it on a gold chain) and it isn't the best watch in my collection but it is the most precious.

Dave, thanks very much to your response to my question the other night about 19 j watches. It's a sad day when you don't learn at least one new thing and ihc-185 is a great space to learn things!

John, the father of a co-worker friend of mine worked at M,K&T (Katy) and he has his father's Bunn Special. I guess his dad started out at one of the entry positions and worked his way up. We talk about watches and RR stuff all the time. My father-in- law was a "yard-master" at the N&W (now N&S)Sandusky rail yard so I have some switch lamps, RR lanterns and even a NYC marked key that I don't have a clue as to what it goes to.

Claude, if your New York Central marked key is big, bronze, and old fashioned looking, it is likely either a caboose key or switch stand padlock key. These would be standardized throughout the company and all train crewmen carried them. I have a set for the Santa Fe, Union Pacific and Southern Pacific.