I have this old case that appears to be gold. Here are the only markings;[see picture]. I could really use some help in ID ing the case contents and case maker. It is a 16sz H/C and holds an Elgin doctors watch. The "flex" test on the cuvette is not of much help, as the case is very heavy, but it does flex just a bit that I can pick up. For the record here are the weights with it all together and with the movement and crystal totaled and in three different units of weight; 126.4g~81.3dwt~4.060ozt. Thanks for what you can give to me on documentation. Regards,bb

Buster i am not fimilar with the hallmark on your case may be a swiss hallmark.The Elgin Doctors watch is a nice movement and not easy too find .

Thanks Samie,
I doubt that the content will have a big impact on its value as its quite a nice watch
Heres the view of the front cover which is quite pleasing and works great with a STORK being on a doctors watch
Tom Brown resized this picture for me to fit on and in this topic as I don't have a program that will resize pictures, but I sure need one Thanks Tom !!!!
The watch appears to be all original with the mvmt from'81-'82 and the case presented in '86.
I would still like to know the casemaker if anyone can give a thought and post it here.
regards,
bb

Buster

A real nice case (and a nice watch imaging the Elgin 'sweep seconds') I think they needed cases that were deeper than normal to case this movements.

Just a guess : when I searched for a horses head trademark I found evidence that a horse head was trademark if an Illinois case named 'the Winner' but I have not seen the mark.

If somebody knows this case and has a picture of the mark please post it !

Regards,
Gerald

Gerald

In the Horological Trademark Index for the Illinois Watch Case Company it only shows the word WINNER as a trademark, I can't find a horse head as a trademark in the book.

I thought the horse head like on Buster's case was a gold mark by a country but I can't find it. I thought France for some reason.

Tom

Here is a view of the cuvette and its inscription/presentation;
C. J. F. Hoffman
5-1-86
I take the "first" initial as to perhaps "Captain" as I can think of no others. Perhaps that might shed some light on the watch and casemakers location?
regards,
bb

Buster-

Check the high wear areas on the case for wear through. What I mean by high wear areas would be the hinges, where the case screws have cut in, where the front lid catch has been hitting the front lid, and especially where the bow is attached. This watch looks to have considerable wear around the bow attachment area, so I would think brassing may show up on that area if it is gold filled.

Jared

Buster,
Beautiful case, holding a nice Elgin. I can't find any reference to the horse head mark, but a Google search turned up a C.J.F. Hoffman who operated a carriage and hardware business in Fort Smith, Arkansas and married Anna Maria Rowe who was born Oct. 26, 1871. She would have been 15 years old by 5-1-86. The watch could have been presented to C.J.F. Hoffman as a wedding present, as people married quite early in those days. Just a wild shot, but not many Hoffman's have three initials.

I've managed to collect two of these Elgin doctor's watches. Both are in open face cases (one gold filled and the other sterling) and both cases have double cut-outs for the lever. The active lever cut-out is located at 7 minutes on the dial, and the extra cut-out is located at 22 minutes. I have no idea why there are two cut-outs, but all the doctor's watches I've seen have these, and the cases are a little thicker than usual to accommodate the little fancy center seconds bridge. BTW, if you are missing the center seconds hand, I gave Chris Abell six of these hands, to help 185 members restore these rare watches.
Do you mind posting the serial number of your doctor's watch? My watches are grade 83 (1880, 1 of 3200, 15j, serial no. 743074) and grade 89 (1881, 1 of 1000, 13j, serial no. 940290). I've posted photos in other discussion topics here in the past, and you might want to get the Picasa photo management program to resize your photos--it's free to download and works for me, and other members have mentioned it. Sorry for the rambling but hope there something in this you can find useful.
John

Thanks Jared & John
The pic. of the front was taken from my scanner and it doesn't do a photo grade job, but works well.... I will try and include an actual photo of the areas you detailed for better evaluation, and will try and get the Picaso system installed perhaps today if the playoffs get boring How 'bout them Boys They surprized even me as I figured Philly & Donovan were setting them up for a big fall. Vick shoud've stayed in the 2nd half, who will ever know now
Heres a photo of the mvmt ser#. I do have the sweep hand but it needs to be a moon style. Did you by chance have any moon style sweeps you sent Chris, since he only lives 25 miles from me
regards,
bb

Photo of "bow area";
bb

Photo of "hinge area";
bb

Photo of "Front Lid";
bb

Photo of "Back Lid";
regards,
bb

Photo of "Dial Area";
bb

Finally Photo of "Movement";
Regards,
bb

Still looking for info Buster.

In regards to the CJF Hoffman in Fort Smith that John mentioned, he was Charles J.F. Hoffman born about 1859 in Germany. He owned a saddle shop/harness shop in Fort Smith Ark., if this watch was his I don't think it had to so with his marriage to Annie, he apparently married her sometime after 1900, prior to that he was in Fort Smith but was listed as a widow.

I also found where he bought a dog kennel in Fort Smith.

I will keep checking.

You don't have any idea where this watch came from to start with do you?

Below is the 1938 Fort Smith City Directory

In the 1900 census for Fort Smith where he is shown as a widow it lists his date of birth as May 1863, so if it was him that owned the watch perhaps he got it for his 23rd birthday.

Tom

Buster,
That is a stunning hunter's case on your doctor's watch and you've got a really beautiful watch face too. Your case shows a stem screw on the back side, which is correct for a doctor's watch with its male stem (also seen on the Elgin convertible cases).
Wish the sweep second hands I gave Chris were the moon style, but those are impossible to find. So my grade 83 has the same dart-style second hand as your watch, and Chris has the rest for anyone who needs them. Sorry that didn't work out. I do keep looking for the moon style second hands, and will keep you in mind if any turn up.
John

Thanks John I appreciate your gracious comments and keeping an eye out for a "moon sweep".
I am still hoping someone out there will recognize the markings on the case and see if the casemaker can be identified. From the first picture in this post of the bust of a horse head facing right with two ears showing in an arched window, I would add that the marking is stamped with a stamping tool and NOT engraved which leads me to believe it was a production item and not a "one-of-a-kind" item. So we are still left with only a guess as to content and case manufacturer as nothing to date has surfaced
I included the first photo in the European section a few days ago but no hits there yet either. Tom had thought it may be French so thats why I posted it there. My thoughts are it could possibly be a Germany made case since his ancestory goes back that way. How about it~ France & Germany, any thoughts?? Of course I am looking for any documentation which would help immensely. And from the "GOLD" folks out there, from the added photos can you point me in a better direction as right now I am 50% gold & 50% gold filled as to metal contents. Your help would certainly be appreciated also, and it doesn't have to be solid gold to make me any happier as the Sgt. said" Just the facts maam, just the facts"
regards,
bb

Buster

This probably isn't it but thought I would pass it on, at one time the French city of Cambrai in the jurisdiction of Lille used a horses head facing right, I looked a little but didn't find any examples with a good photo to post.

Just an idea.

Tom

Tom