I am just starting out and wonder if there might be a basic suggested list of what to buy in railraod grade pocket watches. Maybe a subsidiary non-railroad grade pocket watch guide would also be appropriate. At this point, I am an innocent babe in the woods, so don't hold back on telling me to forget. I don't believe a hit or miss approach is the way to go. What say?

Hi Mortimer,
This question arises relatively frequently. The patent responses generally include, take your time and learn and watch, buy the best you can afford..etc..(solid advice,by the way), but, it would be interesting at this point to know what is drawing you to watches.

Whatever the reason, you will find a wealth of opinion here and a good resource of contacts too.
-Cort

Cort, it is an almost whimsical attraction to railroad grade pocket watches. I do some volunteer work for AmTrak, am what is called a Volunteer Station Host, essentially a walking info booth who also sees that passenger get on the right train. It's fun the meet the California Zephr, westbound and eastbound, not to mention other trains. So, as part of the fantasy of the occasion, I wear a vest complete with pocket watch and chain. Probably, I will branch out to other types of pocket watches. The irony of it all is that just about all of the AmTrak staff wear Casio G-Shock wristwatches. What a way to run the railroad!

As you read and learn, you will develop your own taste for certain styles of watches. I started outwith the older 18s RR watches, and progressed to the 16s Hamilton's and Illinois.

Even within Hamilton, there are various RR models of the 992, 992E, and the famous 992B. And don't forget their 23j 950 & 950B. Part of your education is to learn when a watch is "right", ie the dial, case, hands, and mvt should be appropriate for the original offering from the mfr. You can learn by reading here and by studying old catalogs and advertisements.

Its an interesting hobby and learning about variations within models is part of the fun. There's a real satisfaction in finding a correct piece and knowing its "right".

For specific recommendations, you can't go wrong starting out with the Hamiltons mentioned above or the various Illinois Bunn Special models. Ball watches are highly sought and another good place to start. These models tend to get the most attention from collectors and command a premium when compared to like RR watches from Waltham, Elgin and some of the smaller companies. But until you get your feet on solid ground, have your potential purchases checked out by knowledgeable folks you can trust.

Charlie

Hi Mortimer,
See what I mean?

I really liked the description of what you are doing at Amtrac. You may have been a railroader in a past life but it's a bit early to tell .

I'm here because I collect by nature and am "into" basic mechanics and also small stuff. My family ran several R.R.s a century ago which might have something to do with it too.

Once you're in it's tough to get out! Pace yourself. The rewards are many.
-Cort

I too am a new collector- of railroad pocket watches- the one thing I can offer is to do your home work before you buy. MANY, MANY watches are "advertised" as railroad watches- that really are NOT.

Read, Read and Read some more- then decide what to start with. After about 1 1/2 years, my collection consist of 3 Hamilton 992, 3 992b's, 2 992e's, 3 Bunn Specials, 2 BW Raymonds, and a Ball-Waltham- all 16 size 21j movements.

Find what you like and go for it! There are soooo many out there to choose from- you can get overwhelmed- start small and educate yourself.

GOOD LUCK!! It is a great hobby with endless rewards. Best part about collecting is that if you are "smart" with your purchases- they can be a good $$ investment as well.

Thanks, Foster, Cort, Larry, Charles, Don and Tom, for the helpful tutorial. I have printed out the link provided by Don so that I can study it and make it my guide. Surprises sometimes turn up as shown by this link: www.equationoftime.com/forums/showthread.php?p=32929&highllight=two+vignettes. If this link does hot produce, please get in touch, and I will send the short post that I did on Equation of Time.

Mort

Hi Mort,

I read your post about the Tavannes watch. What a wonderful story, and thanks for sharing it.

Amazing story, Mortimer, thanks for posting it.

Mortimer
Don,t overlook the 18 size railroad watches such as the Hamilton 940 ,the 18 size bunn,s and bunn special,s,,the waltham vanguards etc..I have several of the Waltham 18 size watches that are 2 tone not only are they beautiful too look at but are railroad quailty.

A lot of The 18 size watches can be bought for less than the 16 size watches, a nice 940 can be bought in the 200-225 price range they were the workhorse of the railroad for many years.

Hi Mortimer,

There is much good, sound advice on this thread already. I would add the following:

1. Determine your goals. Some possibilities are:

A. Pride of ownership [Most entrants into the hobby start there. Many collectors subsequently pass through several stages in their collecting careers, from aggressively acquisitive (the "gotta-have-its"), to one of selectively upgrading their current collections, to standing pat, to liquidating]. Within the pride-of-ownership category, most collectors choose a theme for their collection, which can be broad or narrow. Actual examples of which I know include: "Railroad watches," as in your case; Comprehensive coverage of specific companies (I collected early Howards); "The highest grade products of each American manufacturer;" 19th Century English watches; 12 Size dress watches; military watches; "technical watches," i.e., watches with complications, or unusual escapements &/or train layouts; decorative watches; pocket chronometers; and so on ad infinitum. Specializing narrowly may (or may not) restrict collecting opportunities, but it also offers you more opportunity to become an expert at what you collect. (One should endeavor to learn at least as much about what one collects as the sellers one buys from.) "Railroad watches" would be an especially broad theme, so you might consider some specialization within that category. This would more easily enable you to put together a reasonably sized group of watches that might have some collecting interest beyond merely its individual constituents.

B. Learning and scholarship (either for personal edification or for sharing with others). Years from now, few will remember or care what watches you owned, unless they remain in your family, or you are famous for other reasons. Conversely, if you contribute to the permanent collective horoological knowledge on a subject, future enthusiasts of that subject may indeed remember your work even if not your possessions, just as people now remember such persons as Paul Chamberlain, George Townsend and Bill Meggers, to name a few. Ultimately, I think most people eventually wish to leave some kind of a legacy, if they can.

C. Community with other collectors. I refer to the enjoyment one derives from getting together with others who share your interest. If that's your primary goal, it can be accomplished on a relatively modest budget. Many collectors, especially but not only beginners, make the mistake of confusing a person's inventory of possessions with his standing in the community. Frankly, anyone can assemble a very impressive collection by throwing enough money around, but there are many in our hobby with very impressive collections who are not particularly respected as either savvy or learned collectors.

D. Financial investment. While I think collectors should seek good value for their money, I am personally dubious of pocket watches as "investments," per se. Its not that they don't appreciate in value - I have consistently sold my own watches for more than I paid for them. Its just that collectibles mostly don't perform as well over long periods as most other more conventional (and liquid) assets, which pay dividends, generate rents, or compound interest, etc. The Antique Road Show is not reality. Others have put it much more simply: "Collect what you like." Then if it appreciates in value, that's gravy. Few ever derived the genuine pleasure from stocks and bonds that one can derive from surrounding oneself with fascinating, historical artifacts like pocket watches.

2. Assess your strengths and constraints. How much do you want to "invest?" Do you have, or do you plan to develop watch restoration skills? [For many watch restoration IS the hobby! Or at least, its their primary focus. For many others, these skills greatly enhance collecting opportunities and stretch collecting budgets.] Does the idea of contributing to the collective knowledge of the subject attract you, and if so, do you have research training or writing skills? [For some, including myself these days, THAT is the hobby.]

3. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got as a beginner was: "Watches are expensive. Books are cheap." In fact, you can borrow many great books for free from the lending library. A dollar spent after you've done your homework is far less likely to cause regret afterwards. Bill Meggers used to say, "The only substitute for time is money."

I'll quit for now. I hope this is helpful.

Buy as many as you can afford!

Hello Mortimer, I got started in this hobby completely by accident, with a big old 7 jewel Elgin 18 size watch in a silveroid case, which I still own . I didn't know anything about watches, except that I sort of liked them. I began prowling auctions, flea markets,etc and buying whatever came along. I've been lucky and found a few sleepers and I've missed some treasures. A Hamilton 946 comes to mind, thats when I knew I had to find out what I was trying to do. My collection is probably not as nice as a lot of others, but has still given me a lot of satisfaction and enjoyment. The fun is in the hunt. I would advise you to listen to the advice you find here, but to do your research and decide what you like, and if your finances permit, buy.

I am also new to the art of watch collecting. I love the railway grades but am glad I started out with a few cheaper watches first. Tis less of a trial if you get it wrong and not so much at stake if you want to learn how to service them yourself. If the aim is to have fun you can do that just as well no matter what you spend. Be patient and read lots.

Very interesting topic!

One of our members who had not previously collected 16-size Railroad Watches recently asked me what might be a worthwhile representative collection. I thought a bit and responded with the fact that by the end of the 1920s there had been a dramatic loss of the smaller American Watch Companies. During that decade we lost Hampden, Howard and South-Bend, the previous decade Rockford stopped production.

My suggested list was of 1920s Railroad Pocket Watches...


• Hamilton 992 or 950

• Elgin B.W. Raymond

• Illinois Bunn Special

• Waltham Vanguard

• Hampden Railway

• Howard Series 11

• South-Bend 227

• Ball-Hamilton


What do you think?

I think Lindell's suggestions are a fine start.

I have a similar list in mind for my own collecting goals. At this stage of my life I have to keep my focus pretty narrow in my collecting.

Although interested in nearly all watches, the great RR watches are my greatest passion. I have in mind to concentrate on the factory cased watches, as well as some of the slightly earlier ones.

I thank all of you for the meaty info that you have given to me, an experience that I regard as one of the durable satisfactions of watch collecting through this Forum. From the above, I have boiled down my initial approach to one that has better focus and better discipline. So, my first approach will be to seek three of the watches on Lindell's list, namely, the Hampden Railway, Howard Series 11 and the South Bend 227. Frankly, I am almost ashamed to say that I would never consider the Hampden and the South Bend, but now the joy begins as I learn what I can about those two brands. I shall start now to do the research, and keep my eyes open for opportunities.