Gents,

I am wondering if there is a technique to temporarily "freeze" the minute hand at 60 to sync the time of the pocket watch. Apart from unwinding the mainspring altogether, is there a SAFE way of stopping the balance wheel temporarily, without damaging this delicate part?

Paul there is a better way to time the watch..get you a cheap quartz watch , most all of these stop running when you pull out the stem out ,stop the quartz watch with the second hand on the 12 oclock postion and when the second hand on the pocket watch gets too the 12 oclock postion restart the quartz watch.

Paul, That is why I like my Hamilton 2974B comparing watch, it has a hack feature which stops the balance wheel when the stem is pulled out.

The method I use on my other watches is to use a piece of thin rubber band trimmed down to a thin sliver on the end. I hold it lightly against outside rim of the balance wheel to stop the watch. The rubber band usually catches one of the balance screw heads. It takes a deft touch. Make sure the rubber band end is free of lint, dust etc. that could be left on the balance and change the timing.

Once I have regulated the watch, I don't remove the case back to readjust the regulator to try and keep the watch in perfect time. When it gets one minute off, I reset the minute hand and allow the second hand to fall where it may. Leaving the case back on the watch as much as possible minimizes the chances of damage or contamination.

The method I use when removing screw case backs is to use a loop of packaging tape sticky side out that is large enough to fit over my first three fingers. With your fingers inside the loop, stick the loop on the case back and twist. You have very good grip when removing the back, and very good control when starting the threads when you screw the back on. Be careful, it is easy to over tighten the back using this method.

OMGoodness !! With all due respect,

Lets use Samie's method.

Hacking a mechanical watch that doesn't have a built in hacking device, with any foreign objects is not recommended.

regards,
bb

Buster, your comments are respectfully and duly noted.

My watchmaker reacted the same as you.

IMHO, it depends on the individual, if you can't handle it, don't do it.

I think Sammie has a great idea. I have a few quartz watches, one will work Im sure for when the movement is cased. But most of the time I do timing adjustments after a coa while the movement is out. At that point its easier to just release the click and slowly unwind the mainspring.

A correctly fitted POCKET WATCH seconds hand can have enough "slip" fit to be moved around counter clockwise * to "synch" the correct seconds time using a wooden toothpick. A gentle nudge near the hub should do it. Otherwise use the toothpick to stop the hand until "real time catches up, and then release it in "synch".

*NOTE On single roller watches clockwise seconds hand adjustment CAN sometimes cause an overbank and stop the watch until the balance wheel is lifted and re-located.

I must be one of the odd ducks. I NEVER pay attention to the position of the second hand unless I'm setting a watch with hacking feature.

When I set a watch, I'm more concerned with the position of the minute hand to a minute hash mark on the dial to set it to the correct time, no matter WHERE the second hand is positioned.

To me, the MINUTE hand is the important hand as to it's position on the dial in time keeping mode.

I can then observe how fast or slow a watch is running by noting where the second hand is when the minute hand hits the center of one of the minute hash marks on the dial and compare it to my atomic clock.

It's sort of like my habit of never resetting my watch when I go between time zones. I am aware of what the correction is on any particular watch I'm carrying and operate accordingly.

Like I said, odd, I know, but it works for me, and has for literally decades.

Regards! Mark

Dave, That is exactly the way my watchmaker does it.

What bothers me is this method, if done continually or periodically, may cause excess wear to the inside of the second hand sleeve causing the second hand to fit loosely or fall off.

Mark, I'm pretty much with you for daily carry and use. If my watch is within a minute of the correct time, I'm good to go. Better slightly fast rather than slightly slow.

When I do regulate a watch, which is once, or maybe twice between COA's, the above method is the one I use.

Joe, that is probably why you see more than a few "old" pocket watches with a loose seconds hand floating around under the crystal

Yup!

Everone try and remember this 2 of the hardest parts too find on a railroad watch or other higher grade watches is a balance or a 4th wheel that holds the second hand.. If you break either one you have cost yourself money either by having too replace the 4th wheel or a balance staff or maybe even a complete balance,,just because the sync was off a tad so be careful .

Samie, Your advice is well taken. Play it safe, be careful.

In reality, the only time I look at the second hand is when I'm regulating the watch, so why worry about it at all?

My outlook on this subject has now 'matured'.

When in doubt, follw my "Plan B": stop the seconds hand with a toothpick and hold it until your "atomic clock" seconds catches up to it.

I used to stop the balance wheel to try to set the watch perfectly but as these watches will rarely stay exactly on time, to the second over a long period of time with any use, I stopped. Now I just get the time as close to the minute as I can because I have noticed that 5 seconds fast today could be dead-on tomorrow! So I guess I agree with Mark on this one. Stick with the minute hand.

I must say that simply stopping the balance with something (rubber-band, small paint brush, even a finger) will no automatically damage anything on the watch, BUT being just a little off on pressure, touch, or distance can take you "final act" in getting a watch up and running into the "first act" of repairing your watch. Never a fun 5 seconds spent I have found ...

If you really must try to be right on time I would recommend letting down the mainspring, get the second hand to the 12/60 position, then wait for you timing watches second hand / digit to get close to "00" and give your watch a gentle swing to get the second hand going, then start winding. Once you get it to full wind, go ahead and set the minute and hour hands. Just an option.

To each his own on this one, but caution and care will always help minimize cost and cursing I have found when working on these timepieces.

Dan

I guess this method would be frowned on.

^LOL

Kevin i think that would work for sure.

Yeah, Kevin I think you might get some rust on the movement if you did that!

"No movements were harmed in the stopping of this balance"

The whole point of this entire thread - 'do no harm'.

The old railroad men had it right, just stop the second hand. Once the other second hand comes around, let it go with a slight twist of the movement. I do it all the time with no problems at all. I guess the only difference is that I am wearing rubber fingers so as not to get the dial dirty.

Lawrence, Does this method stop the train and balance? It sounds like you're saying it does.

I've heard of this method sometime in the distant past, and then I promptly forgot about it. Sounds like a possible viable option if the seconds hand is not slipping on the 4th wheel pinion.

Toothpick would work (the point bearing against the dial near the hub of the seconds hand), wouldn't it?

Joe yes, I meant to say "like David does".

I think that the train will keep moving as I have noticed that the minute hand does move at times. If you hold it, the second hand, long enough the train will stop unless the hand is slipping, and doing it that way to me would mean that the hand would be a little too loose.

Regards,
Larry

Agree with Larry. Ideally the second hand should slip but I have them stop on me all the time. I like them a little tighter than that.

Just tried Lawrence's method on five watches.

I blocked the seconds hand with a toothpick and the balance stopped on all five fully wound watches. Seemed easy to do, and fairly gentle and harmless to the watches.

Just press the point of the toothpick to the dial at a point next to the seconds hand hub and allow the seconds hand to come around and contact the toothpick.

Even after learning this method, I am now leaning towards regulating my watches in the future using only the minute hand and the minute markers to check timekeeping, just like I do with my 30 day regulator clock on the wall.

No more rubber bands on the balance wheel, that's for sure.

Many ways to skin a cat...

Safe and simple...look at your cell phone. Somewhere in the features there is probably a stopwatch function that will time to hundredths or thousandths of a second. Get the function ready and hold the phone with the start button at the ready. When the second hand on your watch hits 60 punch the cellphone start button. When it hits 60 again hit the stop button on the cellphone. If the number on the phone is less than 1 minute the watch is fast, if it is more than a minute, its slow. And you'll see in fractions of a second how fast or slow. If you do this a few times you can get pretty good and accurate results.

Roger just timed one with your method and I get.05 seconds over.Does that mean the watch would gain 30 seconds in a hour?

.05 would be five hundredths of a second, so in 60 minutes that would be 3 seconds. This watch would be off 1 minute and 12 seconds day. This is only an estimate since you can't be sure you hit the start/stop button precisely. The more times you repeat the test the more accurate your result. This method does not interfere with the balance motion so IMO is going to be much more accurate and reliable than any other way short of a timing machine.

Here is another trick to determine if the watch is going to keep decent time even before you put it back together. (Assuming there are no other problems.) After removing and cleaning/oiling the balance jewels, put the balance back on the plate alone with nothing else. I always do this to check balance motion. Put the balance in motion and get ready to count balance oscillation in one direction with your stopwatch function ready. Hit the start button and start counting. Count to 76 and hit the stop button exactly on number 76. You should see 30 seconds on your stopwatch function. If it is more the watch is going to be slow, if less it's fast. Why does this work? The balance vibrates at 18,000 BPH (MOST watches). That's 9,000 one way, 9,000 the other. That turns into 300 vibrations per minute or 150 one way and 150 the other. In 30 seconds you would have 75 one way and 75 the other. If you count starting at '1' and stop at '76' you have counted 75 balance vibrations in one direction which should equate to exactly 30 seconds. I rarely do this anymore since I now have a timing machine, but it does work and is an excellent predictor of how your finished product is going to turn out. Another useful thing about this is that if you do this and have a very good result, but when you are all done the watch doesn't perform as predicted, you have narrowed down your search for the problem.

Roger - Excuse my ignorance, I'm not a watchmaker. I have to have others do that for me.

However, I do like to know and understand how things function and the processes taking place in a watch, particularly in regards to the balance wheel and hairspring in this case.

I've never understood the effect of a correctly vibrated hairspring. So, two questions:

First of all, are you saying that a balance wheel and hairspring, mounted it's plate and cock and jewelled bearings by itself, if swung manually, will oscillate at the same beat even as the amplitude is winding down?

Secondly, if so, does vibrating a hairspring mean adjusting that beat to the desired value?

Having said all that and thinking about it for a minute, I have a third question:

How does the tension of the hairspring and the swung weight of the balance wheel come into play in all that, especially in regards to a correctly vibrated hairspring?

Joe,

The weight of the balance assembly in combination with the strength of the hairspring and its anchor point will all play a role in the correct vibration to 18,000 BPH. When you adjust a regulator on a watch you are in effect changing the anchor point of the hairspring, making it a bit longer or shorter and changing the rate of the balance. Yes, the balance will keep the same rate when manually swung...within reason. There is an expensive tool that uses a 'master' balance wheel sealed in a case with a glass plate on top. The hairspring and balance is suspended over it with the tip of the balance staff just touching a glass plate. The balance is set in motion with the 'master' balance and the oscillations matched by changing the anchor point on the hairspring. Here is a link to Chris Abell's youtube video where he is using this tool: Hairspring vibrating.