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Theodore B. Starr "Click" to Login or Register 
posted
I am in need of an EXPERT. I have this movement and do not know much about it. The dial measures approx a 10 size and the movement 8 size. It appears Swiss and the regulator is very unique. Stem wind and lever set, with the lever being like an earlier Waltham up and down not out. It appears to be 20 jewels. Cap jewels on the steel escape wheel and the fancy lever, but the main wheel is only jeweled from the back and not the dial plate. Huge gold jewel settings. It looks like it has a double roller, but I have not removed the balance yet.. Movement marked Adjusted, and serial number 34015. The name Theodore B. Starr, New York in block lettering... Nickle plates and supurb steel work.. Any ideas or opinions......

 
Posts: 638 | Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin USA | Registered: November 22, 2002
posted
2nd picture. Dail is unsigned...

 
Posts: 638 | Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin USA | Registered: November 22, 2002
IHC Member 179
E. Howard Expert
Picture of Harold Visser
posted
For what it's worth, I have a Longines with the exact same style regulator, also no center jewel on dial side. The center wheel pinion shaft also extends out a bit similar to the one on your movement. So my un-educated guess is that your movement probably is a Longines. In-as-much as it's not an early Howard, all I can do guess....
Harold

 
Posts: 352 | Location: Scottsdale, Arizona USA | Registered: November 25, 2002
posted
Interesting regulator. On mine, the arm is one piece, and rides on the cam. Yours is 2 piece. I have a few Longines, but this on this movement the serial numbers do not jive. Also the plate layout is very different than Longines. Thanks for the GUESS or is IT a secretive Howard experimentalWink If that is what it turns out to be.... Big Grin

John
 
Posts: 638 | Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin USA | Registered: November 22, 2002
Picture of Jerry Treiman
posted
John, the plate style and click spring are indicative to me of an early Agassiz movement. Here is a picture of an 0-size example. Theo.B.Starr was a New York jeweler who usually sold high-quality watches.

 
Posts: 1455 | Location: Los Angeles, California USA | Registered: January 14, 2003
IHC Life Member
RR Watch Expert
Picture of Ed Ueberall
posted
From the shape of the plates and the serial number your movement is most likely made by Agassiz. The "nautilus" style micrometer regulator was used by a number of Swiss makers, including Longines, Omega, Agassiz and others. Gruen used a similiar system on their Dresden (Assmann) made early movements.

Harold - FWIW, Longines changed over to the one piece regulator arm on their later production.

Ed Ueberall
NAWCC 49688
IHC Member 34
The Escapement
 
Posts: 620 | Location: Pooler, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: November 23, 2002
IHC Member 179
E. Howard Expert
Picture of Harold Visser
posted
Yep, this is what happens when I stray away from the Howard stuff...... Frown
 
Posts: 352 | Location: Scottsdale, Arizona USA | Registered: November 25, 2002
posted
Jerry, thanks it looks almost identical. Some subtle differences but that is to be expected on different sizes and age. Must be a left over from key wind. The center post is hollow and has a shaft much like a key wind that runs up thru the cannon pinion, but is rounded off on top plate.

Ed, thanks for the information on the regulator. It make it easier to ID Swiss movement when you know they might share a common regulator style..

Harold, I do the same thing when I get away from fusees......... Wink

John Pavlik
 
Posts: 638 | Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin USA | Registered: November 22, 2002
posted
I just realized I had the same kind of regulator on an old watch I had laying around here....Don't know what it is, but it runs well for a junker! Smile

 
Posts: 170 | Location: Los Angeles California USA | Registered: October 20, 2003
IHC Life Member
RR Watch Expert
Picture of Ed Ueberall
posted
Bill,
Thats no 'junker', although I beleive that someone substituted a brass bushing for the original center wheel jewel. If the symbol in the crest on the pillar plate is a standing lion with a bow, your watch is either a J. J. Badollet or a C. H Meylan, both of which are high grade Swiss makers.

Ed Ueberall
NAWCC 49688
IHC Member 34
The Escapement
 
Posts: 620 | Location: Pooler, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: November 23, 2002
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted
Whoa Nellie!

NOTE TO SELF:

Show Ed the "clunkers" you were planning to dump!

Big Grin Wink Roll Eyes Eek Confused
 
Posts: 10552 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
posted
So that's what that crest is....I just took a closer look at it and yes...It's a standing something with a bow....

 
Posts: 170 | Location: Los Angeles California USA | Registered: October 20, 2003
posted
and this is what the dial says. Is the watch worth working on?

 
Posts: 170 | Location: Los Angeles California USA | Registered: October 20, 2003
IHC Life Member
RR Watch Expert
Picture of Ed Ueberall
posted
From a quality standpoint, yes, I believe that the watch should be restored to GRO, and the center jewel should be replaced. As far as value goes, this may be one of those watches which are fairly high grade, scarce to almost rare in quantity, but which falls into the "who cares" category. Of course forty years ago most high grade RR watches were in the same boat, look at their values now.
Kathy Pritchard lists C. or G. (but not E.) Leonville, Le Locle as being on watches imported early in the 20th Century by Mathey Bros, New York.

Lindell,
I'll tell you all about those "clunkers" after you dump them to me. Cool Big Grin

Ed Ueberall
NAWCC 49688
IHC Member 34
The Escapement
 
Posts: 620 | Location: Pooler, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: November 23, 2002
posted
I seem to remember a private label for Black, Starr & Frost. Same Starr maybe?
 
Posts: 767 | Location: Los Osos, California USA | Registered: December 12, 2002
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