Hello Tom,
I keep reading post from you & your fine detective work on original owners. I find it very interesting. Today I was offered a 14k 16s Waltham 1888 with a name of
Tom H. Lay Seguin, Texas. The owner of this watch is his great grandson. He says Tom was a Texas Ranger, I would love to know if this is true. The great grandson sold Tom's presentation 1900 nickel plated Colt "Peace Maker" & derringer. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Best, Jim

14k watch with 10k chain & 14k pencil

unusual fancy dial

Well I will see what I can find. Wish some one would offer me Texas Ranger stuff, I have always been a big fan of theirs, would love to have the guns too!

Tom

James

Would you happen to know the son of Tom's name, it might help to narrow down the search.

One additional thing, I might find him with a Ranger connection but might not. TR companies came & went some times almost over night, they also basically had a lot of members that were similar to reserves, they were Rangers when the government needed them but were paid on a day to day basis. There were quite a few people that were sworn as Rangers but no records exist today.

I will see what I can find, there is a Texan Ranger Museum on-line & I have corresponded with the director in the past, they have always been very helpful so you could also ask them.

This evening I will see what I can find.

Tom

It might be Thomas H. Lay born March 1859 in Texas, in 1900 he was living on the out skirts of Sequin. His is listed as a farmer, his wife is Sarh & they have a son Harry born Aug 1894.

IN 1920 they all 3 still live together in the same area, Tom is now listed as a Night Watchman.

Found this too;

A Chronology of Texas and Seguin History

http://www.visitseguin.com/2038361_14849.htm

1887 November 00, Brother T.J. Dodson marries Bettie Moss to Henry King in
a double wedding ceremony with her sister Nuge and her husband Tom Lay. Bettie and Mr. Henry move into their newly built home.

(I know the name Nuge doesn't match the census records, but I have a feeling that wasn't her real name, perhaps a nick name)

Tom

James

Moore Memorial Cemetery;Moore,Texas on Highway 462 East toward Bigfoot.
'Interred here are men who fought in Indian battles,WWI and WWII and other major conflicts'

Lay, Thomas H. 3-26-1859 8-1-1929 ; next to Sarah Moss Lay

Lay, Sarah Moss 1869 1969

Regards,
Gerald

Hi Gerald

I think there is a chance we have the right one, James if you could check with the guy you bought the watch from.

In 1860 Guadaluoe County Texas
A.W. Lay Farmer born about 1813 in South Carolina, married to Mary born about 1823 in Arkansas
Children;
William M 1848 Texas
James H. 1850 Texas
Susan 1852 Texas
Robert 1854 Texas
John 1856 Texas
Thomas 1859 Texas

1880 Guadalupe Texas
Mary Lay Widowed born 1824 Arkansas
Children;
Robert
John
Thomas
Louis 1861 Texas
All 4 boys are listed as farmers

1900 Guadalupe Texas
Thomas H. Lay March 1859 Farmer born Texas, father born SC mother Arkansas
Wife Sarah April 1868
son Harry B. Aug. 1894
Uncle Abner H. Beard Oct 1828

1920 Kingsville Kleberg Texas
Thomas H. Lay 1859 Night watchman City
Sarah
Harry for Harry it is hard to read his iccupation looks like Pipefitter Shops.

Tom

Wow,
you guys are good! I have a call in to him. The timeline does seem to fit. The colt Peacemaker was given to him in 1900, which would have made him 41 at the time. The location also fits. I personally think he must have been a true "Ranger". Would you have been given a gift like that Colt if you were for hire on a day to day basis? Thank you very much Tom & Gerald for all your work. It is very much appreciated. Do you think a Texas Ranger history adds interest in this pocket watch? Best, Jim

PS. they sold the Colt for close to $10,000

Hi James

Yes, the Ranger history would add value to the watch, I definitely would be interested. I am still doing some more searching & I have several books on the Rangers that I will search too.

I am curious, do you know who gave him the watch? I would think more towards citizens or some group gave him the Colt is that is the case. Back then the Rangers had to supply their own equipment & guns weren't passed out to keep, at least from all I have read. For a long time the Rangers didn't have issuied badges, just their enlistment papers to prove they were Rangers. That is why some of them started to make their own badges out of the Mexican Peso. Some where around here I have one of their badges, I will have to dig it out & post a photo or two.

I had a relative that moved from Mo. to Texas & became a Ranger but I haven't had any luck getting the documentation , all the dates etc fit but record keeping wasn't that great back then.

If I was you I would be sure & email the Ranger museum.

http://www.texasranger.org/

Tom

Here is his death record

Tom,
just talked to the owner. I missed understood him. He is not the relative. His mother received the watch, two guns & his other possessions from Tom Lay's relative who died in the 60's. He had no heirs & she was left these items. He is going to talk with his sister to see what she remembers. All he did know about the gun was what Colt had told him when he contacted them. It was nickel plated fully engraved with carved ivory handles & produced in 1900. He did tell me there was no box for the colt, but a worn holster & belt with the gun in it. So sounds like you are right Tom. This gun was his personal gun & he used it. Interesting stuff, thanks...

James

I bet we have the right guy, I think it probably came drown from what appears to be their only child Harry. I can't find where he ever married so perhaps he did not have an heirs. I will keep searching as I am sure Gerald will.

If you ever decide to get rid of it let me know.

The Colt letter the owner had would give the information as to how the gun was originally shipped & who it was shipped to. Most of the time it will list a hardware store or something like that. Back then you couldn't buy a gun directly from Colt only businesses or agencies.

I am sure the gun was worth every penny, I would bet it had the carved ivory grips with the bulls head with red eyes. Making me drool.

Tom

I take it back about Harry found him & his wife & mother in the 1930 census Frio Texas;
Harry working as a stockman cattle
wife was Mary born about 1904 & then the mother Sarah Lay.

WWI Draft shows Harry was Harry William born August 10, 1894 in Seguin at that time Harry was an air brake repairer for a railroad in Kingsville Tx & was single

Tom

Marys birth-name was Thurmond
Harry W. and Mary had a son named Thomas H. Lay born 1936, died 1969.
Seguine (Walnut Springs) was founded by the Gonzales Rangers, precursors of the Texas Rangers. Members of the King family (Tom H.s' brother-in-law) were Rangers.
So Tom might have been Ranger too.

Regards,
Gerald

DING! DING! DING! Give those two men a prize. You have the right person for sure. The man who offered me this watch had said his mother received these items from a Tom Lay who committed suicide in the late 60's & he was around 40. All of the pieces to the puzzle fit. This is just really unbelievable how Tom & Gerald put this all together. Really amazing job! It looks like the Texas Ranger story Tom Lay had told this woman is true. Great history lesson here. Thanks again! Jim