This looks to be unfinished dial am I correct or what would this be. I would have thought the center hole would have been drilled out before the enamel was applied. Any thoughts as to what it might be.

Ok here is another waltham 16s dial what model would this have been for it is a little larger than typical 16s which makes me believe it is for a model 88 is this correct. Also would it have been on a ORC ball movement??

Ok here is another one I believe it is also a model 88 dial since it is a tiny bit larger than standard 16s.

Ok more eye candy I will be listing soon. 18s Waltham

16s Waltham

First one up is an unfinished dial for T. O. T. E. "Totem Of The Eagle", which is the "secret password" for Improved Order of Red Men and possibly why it might be unfinished

It is a patriotic secret fraternity that still lives in secret today and was founded in 1765.

The Improved Order of Red Men traces its origin to certain secret patriotic societies founded before the American Revolution. They were established to promote Liberty and to defy the tyranny of the English Crown. Among the early groups were: The Sons of Liberty, the Sons of St. Tammany, and later the Society of Red Men.

On December 16, 1773 a group of men, all members of the Sons of Liberty, met in Boston to protest the tax on tea imposed by England. When their protest went unheeded, they disguised themselves as Mohawk Indians, proceeded to Boston harbor, and dumped overboard 342 chests of English tea.

During the Revolutionary War, members of secret societies quenched their council fires and took up muskets to join with the Continental Army. To the cause of Freedom and Liberty they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honors. At the end of the hard fought war the American Republic was born and was soon acknowledged among the nations of the world.

Following the American Revolution many of the various secret societies founded before and during the conflict continued in existence as brotherhoods or fraternities.

For the next 35 years, however, each of the original Sons of Liberty and Sons of St. Tamina groups went their own way, under many different names. In 1813, at historic Fort Mifflin, near Philadelphia, several of these groups came together and formed one organization known as the Society of Red Men. The name was changed to the Improved Order of Red Men in Baltimore in 1834.

At Baltimore, Maryland, in 1847, the various local tribes came together and formed a national organization called the Grand Council of the United States.

With the formation of a national organization, the Improved Order of Red Men soon spread, and within 30 years there were State Great Councils in 21 states with a membership of over 150,000. The Order continued to grow and by the mid-1920s there were tribes in 46 states and territories with a membership totaling over one-half million.

Today, The Improved Order of Red Men continues to offer all patriotic Americans an organization that is pledged to the high ideals of Freedom, Friendship, and Charity. These are the same ideals on which the American nation was founded. By belonging to this proud and historic organization you can demonstrate your desire to continue the battle started at Lexington and Concord to promote Freedom and protect the American Way of Life.

Second up is a lovely dial of which I have not seen till today. It is for The Order of Railway Conductors, a brotherhood labor union for railway conductors.

The other 3 are assorted "fancy dials"

A rather nice set of dials !! Very Nice !!

regards,
bb

Dang what an answer full history lesson there Buster Thanks. I knew what the second dial was as far as railway conductors but I was curious as to whether this would have been on a Ball (waltham)watch or just a Waltham.The others I just put up for eye candy I have more but just popped a few up so everyone can keep eye open for upcoming auctions.

Buster or Robert,

Would you say the first dial pictured, and described by Buster as unfinished, was rejected at the factory during production because of the visible flaw in the enamel at the 10 o'clock position?

My thoughts wondered the same thing Joe I noticed that but then again I didnt know the process in enamelling was each layer done perfectly smooth or just the final coat after the numbers were applied. I have no idea how dials were made. I originally thought that it would have to be smooth in order to put numbers on then a kinds clear coat or something to seal it. Another question I had was shouldnt the center hole be drilled before the enamel seem like you risk chipping if you drilled hole after.

Another question would be why sloppy numbers with color names not even centered in seconds but more like someone jotted some notes

Perhaps a draft version or proof version to route for approval before they went on with the final design???

Rob, if you decide to sell dial #3 I would be interested in it as a replacement for the slightly damaged one on this 88. Bob

Rob I am interested in buying dial 4 the blue spider web!

Guys these dials will be listed on the bay so everyone has a chance to bid as they see fit. Should be up later today along with a few others and more RR watches. I just posted a few pictures here for eye candy, it was the first two I really only questioned for info on.