Lets have a go at this one , Independent Watch co was organized in 1880 by E.D. Howard and C.E. Howard in Fredonia NY ,with machinery from the defunct Cornell/California Watch co., after several years of effort they turned into Fredonia. Their history is even more confusing than Hampden , this one look like an Illinois (?), some are Hampdens , others look like early Fredonia .The different balance cock is not unusual on this model. Any fredonia collectors please chime in !

serial 180476, my pics are a little better today!

Hello again Kevin!

Wow, that's a cool watch, two neat ones in one day to talk about.

Certainly an Illinois. Love the nickel balance cock.

I have a few Independent watch co Hampdens noted:. Typically 11 jewel No. 71s that are similar to this one. There are.also ones marked Lake shore and Fredonia.

I haven't been the lucky high bidder on any of them yet! Haha.

Here's a great article I read on the subject.

Fredonia Watches by Douglas Shepard
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Was it the Independent watch co that Mark Twain invested in ?

https://americanliterature.com...short-story/my-watch

A nice pick-up Kevin, Illinois 11 Jewel for , you see more of these in the transitional style then the key-wind, so even better, one of Edward & Clarence Howard's

Hi Kevin yes it is a correct Independent Illinois watch Co. Watch. Independent would get other manufactures watches and have their name put on it. They never made a watch. This one looks just like mine except you have a correct marked dial. Mine came with a black IWC dial which was not correct. My understanding is that Some Independent dials were blank. I put a blank one on mine. Yours is very nice. I also have a Hampden model.

Harry

In some instances Harry they done their own engraving on the plates

Thanks everyone, the Independent - Fredonia- Peoria is an interesting era in american watchmaking

Thanks Bila, yes they just purchased the blank watch to the best of my knowledge and they engraved their information on it or had it engraved with their name on it. I don't know which.

Harry

Hey Harry , you said "they never made a watch ", certainly the later models that became fredonia-peoria are made by Independent ?(like 201125), If they are -is 191105 a swiss ?or 202143 a Mark Twain model looks like a cross between both . There is only 1 page on the PWDatabase , It almost seems they bought unfinished movements from anywhere and finished them off, the history clearly indicate they had machinery and replaced machinerey. Any thoughts

Hi Kevin,

Reading in the Price Guide it states that the two Howard bros. purchased their watches from American watch manufacturers primarily Hampden, Illinois, and US Watch company of Marion. They also had a version from N.Y.W.Co. The price guide states "They had other manufacturers engrave the Independent Watch Co. name on the top plates and on the dials of their watches". Their watches were sold by mail C.O.D.

Later the company did produce its own watch and it was named Fredonia which later moved to Peoria, Ill. The Independent Watch Co. was started in 1880 as a mail order catalog watch provider using other manufactures movements with their name on it and later started selling their own movements with Fredonia on them and since they were really in competition with their own company they went out of business in 1881. So it appears they were in business between one and two years. Even though the Price guide is unclear since it states that the I.W.Co was in business from 1875 until 1881. Maybe the Howard bros. took over in 1880.

I have also seen Hampdens with Fredonia NY on them so maybe after the Howard bros. started making their own watches in the 1880/1881 time frame they continued to use other people's movements and continued to put their name on them. So it looks like to me that Independent went under (or maybe just a name change) in 1881 and Fredonia started in 1881 until 1885.

Clear as mud but that is my understanding of it. Yours and mine were before Independent started making watches and naming them Fredonia the way I see it.

Harry

There were four Howard Bros that originally sold watches, two of them, Lewis & Edward (with Edward being the junior partner), first started selling watches and Jewellery in 1865 from items purchased from a New York Jewellery & Watch Dealer. In and around 1866 they were advertising the sale of American watches, being 5 different models of Waltham's. These were purchased as clean-skins (not engraved)and they engraved their own markings on them. During this time they also had two other partners in the business, a Stiles & McKinstry.

In early 1875 the older brother (Lewis) died and Edward become senior partner and took on Clarence in the Family Business (the business at this time was a Book & Jewellery Store). Around 6 months after that in 1875 they started the "Independent Watch Company" at 63 Main Street.

During this time they also used the names of Lake Shore & Empire City Watch Co's. They were buying Watches and Case's and still inscribing the names of their 3 enterprises (listed above) on the movements themselves. To my knowledge these were all sold as mail order initially and that mail order business was operated out of their Book & Jewellery Store so no actual Watch Factory as such to produce their own watches.

In 1876 they had purchased the "Eye Salve Company" that belonged to James Pettit. Around 1878 the decided to build a new Factory to house this enterprise and they watch line which was advertised as the $16 watch. There Ownership and shares of the original Book and Jewellery store was sold in 1878 to the youngest brother Frank so they could concentrate on their new operation. Although in saying this Frank still continued to sell watches from his establishment whose named had been changed to "F. W. Howard's Jewellery and Howard's Book Store". His advertising of the day only specified Waltham, Hampden, Springfield (Illinois Watch Co) and Elgin watches for sale.

By 1881 Edward & Clarence had purchased more land, moved the old Factory to that land and then extensively enlarged the concern, This is when they started to experimenting making their own watch movements. The incorporation papers for the Independent Watch Co were filed on the 24th March 1881. During 1881 they also branched out in to other endeavours outside of watch manufacture.

Mark Twain become involved with his married Sister a Mrs Moffett, they become stockholders during the incorporation phase. By the last quarter of '82 Twain thought there was a swindle on by the Howard Bros's of jacking up the share price and then selling their shares off. So he was going to spill the beans in a few choice Newspapers. This was supposedly headed off by the Howard's through a deal that they would buy back the shares.

They then proceeded by '83 to form the Fredonia Watch Company, this is where their actual making of watch movements started in earnest, then by '85 they started the Peoria Watch Company and continued watch production. By '88 Edward and Clarence had pretty much moved on but Frank continued on advertising The "Empire Watch Co" on 63 Main Street, but it was not a Watch company as such but a mail order business selling watches.

As a little footnote, Richard Sears of "Sears & Roebuck" fame credit the Howard Bros with starting him on the way to a mail order business

Credits & Compliments to "Fredonia's History" by Shepard, it makes an interesting read.


(Please note that this post has been paraphrased in the above by me from Shepard's article)

Sorry Rick, just checked that link of yours different website but very similar piece. The one I read was in a revised PDF edition of Shepard's take on the history of Fredonia and the Howard Brothers.

I'm grateful you wrote that out Billa, thank you!

Have you seen an "Empire City"? I have not in my short time collecting observations. Going to have to dig around on that one, interesting!

Not a Empire City for the Howard Brothers Rick, it is interesting that they were using that name. Have one here from Marion/United States Watch Co., as the Marion Watch Company during its ups and downs reorganized as a Company by that name in 1876. This is around the same time that the Howard Brothers were doing the mail-order thing form their Jewellery and Book Store enterprise.

I just ran across a little bit of info and picture of a Empire City Watch Co movement made by USWCo for the Howard Brothers, so they were buying theirs as well it seems

Must have been quite a business! Thank you!

Kevin FYI on the "Mark Twain" model, it is was made by the USWCo for the Howard Brothers as was a few others of theirs as well

Wow Bila thanks for filling in all the holes in the price guide. Very interesting. I have a few Independent, one or maybe two Fredonia but the only Peoria I have was made for Non-Magnetic Watch Co.

Harry

All the credit needs to go to Mr Shepard Harry, a very nice piece of History he has researched there.

It definately fills in the blanks as you say, most of the contemporary stuff on the Howard Bro's tend to portray them as rogue's, but if this was the case I could not see how they would have been able to last so long.

I think, not to bad of businessmen in their own right considering their enterprises were very successful at times when a lot of others were not

If you want to see a small mountain of watches marked Independent Watch Co, check out the Heritage Auction that went off yesterday. Interesting pieces.

Some nice watches in that Auction Rick, including those Independents you spoke about, a few nice bundles of Peoria & Fredonia's as well as a lot of others

Yes, absolutely many nice watches. Unfortunately those giant lots prevented me from being able to compete in bidding.

I agree, I do not think there would have been too many lots going cheap somehow.

Most in that lot appeared to be U.S. Watch Co. Marion and Illinois.