Hey! As promised, here are some pics of my Elgin "Overland" in the case I fixed yesterday. It was in a big nickel silver "turnip" case, which is just too big to carry. This one is so much prettier. And I especially love the train on the back...I've never seen one where it was coming head on.
https://picasaweb.google.com/1...Gv1sRgCKut7-Osm8yrZw

Sorry you have to go to my link...having a terrible time trying to get the pictures to fit here, pixel wise. Regards, Brad

Brad-

Here's your pictures for you. Turned out very nice by the way!

Jared

Pic2

Pic3

Pics 4

Pic5

Pic6

Pic7

Thanks Jared! We can never get them down to the right size.

Brad-

I use Microsoft Office Picture Manager. I think it is free from microsoft. Anyways, it has on its resize button an option to resize to weg_large or web_small. These I resized to the web_large setting and you can see the results. It works very well for me to put pictures on here.

Jared

I'll have to look into getting that. I'm completely technically challenged. Have to have my wife mess with it. Brad

Brad, try Picasa from google. Its free at;

http://picasa.google.com/

Even I learned how to use it. I am the one that never got past page 2 of "Windows for Dummies".

Brad, very nice watch, great case, never saw one where the train is heading straight at you.
Gary

Thanks Gary. It had a beat up, non working, 7j Waltham in it when I bought it. I thought my Elgin would look perfect in it. And it does. Brad

Good going Brad. Very nice example, particularly the basket-style case.

Thank you Ed. So THAT'S what they're called. Brad

A beauty!!

The 343 and the 353 Elgin grades are some nice and for the most part overlooked grades with the 343 being a bit more rare (1000 vs 11000) and if my memory is correct the 353 was marked either GMW, Elgin National Watch Co or Overland, I am not sure what the breakdown on the marking is but I would not think a grade 353 Overland would be overly abundant.
Nice looking watch, great to see someone give these overlooked movement some TLC.

Thanks Roger and Claude! I bought the Elgin from Leonard Abbott. I hope he sees what I did with it. My wife has a 1906 Grade 353 "Overland" that we discussed a year ago. It was taken to the village blacksmith back then, and hasn't run right since. I'll be sending it to Chris this spring. But I'm not allowed to wear it. or swap it's case, and it is in a giant "turnip". It belonged to her great grandfather. They're not quite railroad grade, but they're very nice carry watches. And I am so grateful to Buster, who taught me that little string trick that fixed the sprung hinge on the back of this gorgeous case. The only thing left to do is send it down to William for a new crystal. This one's a bit scratched up. Brad

Welcome.

I see two post now where these type of cases have been referred to as "basket" cases instead of DHB&B [double hinged back and bezel] type of cases. I suppose one can call them whatever one wishes but.....

Generally "basket" cases are used to describe a watch that is apart and is in need of various parts and toted around in a basket OR one of the old 1890's era watches that had flora & fauna on the lid's and sometimes even have a depiction of an actual basket holding fruit or cut flowers.

I find this confusing and I will be the first to admit to you that it does not take much to confuse me However I see that you have picked this up and perhaps it will continue to spread. I think this will be all too confusing and outside of IHC I think it will continue to confuse people when you are describing to them a "basket" case when you should be calling it a DHB&B case. These jointed [hinged] cases have been called DHB&B cases for most all of their life.

Quite a handsome watch, I must say Someday I hope to see an Overland mvmt marked watch in a DHB&B case with an engraving of a stagecoach and team pulling it That would be the "bomb" to me

The Overland Trail (also known as the Overland Stage Line) was a stagecoach and wagon trail in the American West during the 19th century. While portions of the route had been used by explorers and trappers since the 1820s, the Overland Trail was most heavily used in the 1860s as an alternative route to the Oregon, California and Mormon trails through central Wyoming. The Overland Trail was famously used by the Overland Stage Company owned by Ben Holladay to run mail and passengers to Salt Lake City, Utah via stagecoaches in the early 1860s. Starting from Atchison, Kansas the trail descended into Colorado before looping back up to southern Wyoming and rejoining the Oregon Trail at Fort Bridger. The stage line operated until 1869 when the completion of the First Transcontinental Railroad eliminated the need for mail service via stagecoach.

A joint effort by the UPRR & SPRR later created The Overland Route via rail traffic from Omaha, NE. to San Fransisco, CA. to deliver the mail after the stagecoach era.

So the engraved case of the locomotive is a very good exemplified case for your watch

regards,
bb

Pic 1; The Overland Route 1916

I would have to look when I get home but I think the 343 and 353 were adjusted to iso/temp/3p or simply marked Adjusted as most Elgins were in the very early 1900's.

If you take the hard core approach and say that the watch had to meet 100% of the RR standards of the time, then no neither the 343 or 353 would meet that hard core criteria.

There was a lot of miles of track run by major RR's (not just a local Poduckville RR) that was running on watches adj3p up into the early 1920's.

For the most point I have not seen too much in the way of watch standards for local Poduckville rialroads but there is quite a bit out there for companies like Santa Fe, and many Southern companies that allowed A3P watches up into the late teens and early 20's.

Where Mr. Ball had heavy influence then adj5p was the rage in 1906 but it was in his best interest to push for tighter standards since the Ball Watch co had a good portion of the RR watch market.

Buster, all I can say is WOW! Maybe there IS a case out there somewhere with a stage coach on it. Knowing all of this makes me even prouder of my Overland's!

Bumping this up, hopefully Leonard will see it.

hi brad ,
yes ,i see it and like it ! what a beautiful case ! it sure puts a smile on my face to know somebody here bought a watch from me and enjoys it. a job well done
leonard

Thanks Leonard! I am so glad that you like what I did to her. Regards, Brad

Brad I do not know if the dial came on the movement or if you put it on as a preference but the dial that is on the movement would have been from the 1890-1895 range and would have been found on some 20j 149/150's and a few others.

By the time the grade 353 rolled out Elgin had switch to the "block" Elgin font and for the mid level 353's had done a cost cutting move and they did come with a double sunk dial it was a pseudo double sunk dial. Elgin during some part of the dial making process did something to a normal single sunk dial that make it appear to be a double sunk.

While visually they are a double sunk dial they are not a 3 part double sunk dial. Normally you can identify these by the fact that the center sunk section is not as glossy as a typical double sunk dial.

You also see this on Elgin's mid level 17j 16 size watches, I refer to them as "ground center" dial which is what I have heard them called but I am not sure how Elgin did the process of getting the sunk section.

Claude, I thought the same thing. My wife's Overland has one of the dials you're talking about...looks like a DS but it's not, with arabic numerals, red 5 min. markers, and block logo. I'm not a big fan of roman numerals, and was going to change out the dial. But after putting it in this case, well, it just seems to look nice. However, I may hunt for the right one someday. Brad

Brad you will see them both ways, Arabic with red min markers and Roman with red min markers (for the mid-segment 17j hunters). They should be easy to find, if not I think I have at least one 18s in my stash.

On your dial if you put it on ebay it might bring as much as you have into your case/movement, I would tend to stash it away since this would typically be found on Elgin's high end 17j movements 116 etc and as I mentioned on the early runs of the 149 and 150.

My 3rd run 150 had a Roman numeral dial, I think before the the rules forced the dials to be Arabic numbers some of the open faces came either way depending on buyer preference, I did not change mine since it is a different look and I am completely happy with it.

Claude, I've seen a particular dial that has fancy arabic numerals, "railroad tracks" minute chapter, red 5-min. markers, and is double sunk. It is a stand-out to me because of the stylish "tails" on the "7's" and "5's". If I find another one of these, I'll post a picture of it. THAT is the dial I'm looking for. The one I saw was on a 17j B.W. Raymond if I remember correctly. Brad

Like this dial, only double-sunk http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELGIN-...380a11#ht_500wt_1202 Sorry Leonard, had to borrow your listing.