For some months now I have been scanning the sales looking for a lady's small pocket or pendant watch in 0-size, with 981, 983, or 985 movement.

Not a single one has turned up on eBay - do they exist, are they so rare ? Any ideas anyone ?

Dan

The 986, 986A and 987 movements are 6/0 size, and ladies' pendant watches with these movements are easy to find. It is the earlier and larger 0-size pendant watches which seem to be non-existent - I have not seen a single example in months of searching.


Dan.

Lindell:

The 983 (17 jewel - 1908 to 1918) and the 985 (19 jewel - 1909 to 1918) were originally made specifically for usage in "woman's chatelaine" watches. In fact, the first of the three o-sized movements (983, 985 and 981) made was the 983 and the 983 was labeled on the bridge "Lady Hamilton" (the 985 was not so labeled and neither was the 981 for reasons I state below). Interestingly, the 983 and the 985 were not used as a men's wristwatch movement until the last two years of their manufacture - 1917 and 1918 (to see info on the men's wristwatch, please click this link - Men's wristwatch). Subsequently, one can say the 983 and 985 movements were more woman's watch than men's.

The 981 was not used in "women's chatelaine" watches but was made exclusively for the men's wristwatch. You can find more on the subject by going to my site - Movement information

Indeed, the o-sized "woman's chatelaine" watches are hard to find but they are out there as I have both a 983 and 985 "woman's chatelaine" example. If there is an interest, please let me know - I'll post the production numbers for the 983 and 985 woman's chatelaine watches.

Also, if you would like to see more information on these watches, please feel to go to my site. I own the 983 Hamilton Prototype and I include a picture of the prototype along with a summary of the prototype's history and its involvement in both woman's watches and Hamilton's first men's wristwatch. Click here to view - 983 Prototype

Kindest regards,

Will

VERY informative site there Will. I don't collect wristwatches and only have a Hamilton Donald that I wear for special events but your site was very interesting.
Great eye candy.

Gary

Gary and Lindell:

You're very welcome - and thank you for your kind remarks.

Regards,

Will

983 movement number 1251578 has just surfaced on ebay, the first 983 I've seen, obviously converted to wrist use, for some time.

To anyone with access to the factory records I'd be interested in an approx. date of manufacture.

And since I'll have to service this movement I'd like to know how to let the mainspring down, as there seems to obvious/regular way to do this.

DM

How about this 986A ????? is it right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/HAMILTON-ANTIQUE-ENGRAVED-MENS-GOLD...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Dan,
These movements use a long, narrow flat spring that goes around the winding wheel. You can see it just below the words "Lancaster, Pa" on the barrel bridge.
To let the mainspring down, hold onto the winding crown while gently moving the end of the click spring away from engagement with the winding wheel (its the right side of the spring that moves in your scan). This will allow the winding wheel to move counter-clockwise, letting the spring down. Move the spring end just enough to clear the winding wheel teeth, too much will bend or break the spring.

Is this what you are looking for?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item...=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004

It might be - I have asked seller for details of the movement.

Thanks for the tip-off.

As to where all the 6000 made are - it indeed is a mystery as very few turn up.

DM

To Ed Ueberall, above -- that is a very unusual mainspring click system - was it used on any other Hamilton movements, or indeed used on any other movement of the period ?

DM

Dan,
I'm not sure about Hamilton, perhaps one of the Hamilton experts would know. Without doing a lot of specific research, the American company that comes to mind is Howard (Keystone). It was used on some of the Series 11 Railroad Chronometers and perhaps on some of the other models. A number of high grade Swiss movements such as Longines also used this system.

A similar Swiss-style spring click was used on the 12-size Hamilton grades 900 and 920. Charles DeLong modified the concept with a 5-tooth cog on the end (to improve recoil) for the click on the Illini model (grades 528, 538 & 539) made by the Illinois Watch Co. This movement was the basis for the Hamilton grade 400 which also has the DeLong click.

This is the watch referred to by Lawrence, above.
The first proper 0-size lady's watch I've seen on ebay for some time.

--- and the 983 "Lady Hamilton" movement.

Dan,
I was kind of wondering if that was you who bought that watch. Looks like you got lucky.

Yes - I had to get a contact in the US to buy it for me, so it will be some time yet before I get to work on it.

I also have another 983 converted to a wristwatch, still to come.

DM

I have now been able to work on both 983 mvts. which I awaited. One has sub-seconds while the other has not - the dial has no sub-secs pivot hole, and the 4th. wheel pivot is short and the end contoured, i.e. a seconds pivot has not just been cut-off.

For movements around 90 years old both show little evidence of wear.

DM

Here is the before/after servicing of my latest 983. The cleaning fluid in my ultrasonic tank seems to have removed the (nickel?) plating on the bridges.

I've just been looking at the "Gelson" list on 983 numbers - there seem to be two mutually exclusive entries.

The list says the last set of numbers ran from 1253001 thru 1257000, but elsewhere is says that numbers 1256001 thru 1266000 were 956P movements ?

Will or Lindell - any thoughts ?

Dan.

It seems obvious to me that, in those pre-computer days, when this list was typed on an old-fashioned typewriter the typist transposed the 5 and the 6 on the gr.956P run. If you make that correction the numbers make perfect sense.

A most logical answer.

And here is another fine 0-size P.W.

See --- http://tinyurl.com/yo3nah

DM

The movement referred to above ---

983 movement number 1256691 just surfaced on eBay.

DM

After a long wait I was able recently to get another 983 watch -- this time movement number is 1253629.

dan.

After a further 983 p.w. appeared on ebay I have established that movement number 1255438 was presented as a Christmas gift for 1914. Therefore we can now say that movements numbered lower than that were probably put into ladies pocket watches.

It is likely that to be sure of getting a movement from a man's wristwatch you need a number above 1255500.

Another bit of 0-size info. came from a Hamilton booklet which showed that the 983 and 985 movements were also made in versions without sub-seconds, numbered 982 and 984 respectively.