Thought some of you Illinois and E. Howard experts might find this letter interesting. It is in response to a question my Grandfather asked Hamilton regarding the finishing of Illinois watches after the Illinois plant closed.


December 8, 1953

Mr. John J. Flahive
Watchmaker
130 East Clinton Street
Joliet, Illinois

Dear Mr. Flahive:

Replying to your letter of December 1 concerning information on domestic Illinois watch movements made in Lancaster after the Illinois Plant was closed in 1932, there were considerable quantities of Illinois watches which were finished or assembled by Hamilton after that date, but these were of parts made in Springfield, for the most part. The exception is a quantity of Illinois Bunn Special Railroad watches which were finished during the War, for which we had complete sets of parts except for the balance wheel. A Hamilton balance wheel was used in those watches.

It would be impossible for us to give you the serial numbers without an extensive search of our serial records to determine the date the individual watches were sold by us.

However, you might be interested, from a collector's viewpoint, in information concerning some watches manufactured with the Illinois name engraved on them. A quantity of watches was made by us, the movements were essentially the same as the Hamilton Grade 980, the parts being interchangeable, the appearance of the movements slightly different. These watches were made in order to retain the use of the Illinois name. In this connection, another quantity of watches was made and sold bearing the E. Howard name, for the same purpose. Both of these names are owned by Hamilton Watch Company. The individual parts of the movements are identical and interchangeable with Hamilton Grade 980. There was also a quantity of pocket watches made with the E. Howard name, the parts inter¬changeable with Hamilton Grade 917.

Following are the quantities of such watches:

14/0 E. Howard Serial Nos. HW 001 to HW 570
14/0 Illinois Serial Nos. W 001 to W 550
10-s E. Howard Serial Nos. HWR 001 to HWR 012

The first two listed are in fair quantities, but all will be future collectors' items, I have no doubt.

Sincerely yours,

R.W. Slaugh
Head Watchmaker
HAMILTON WATCH COMPANY

The "quantity of Bunn Specials" finished "during the war" he is talking about I would guess without too much reservation to be 161A's in the late 5.5 and early 5.6 million serial number range. Additionally I suspect there may have been a few tail end 163A's of the last run but not nearly as many of those as the 21j. 161A's. Great letter, John!! Thanks for sharing!

Nice letter John, thanks for posting.
Brian C.

Very interesting letter John.

Mike, I was thinking 161B when reading this. Where would the 161B's fit in all this?

Don Dalhberg posted a letter on one of the boards from Hamilton to retailers that they were finishing up some Bunn Spl's that were shipped in Hamilton Model 12 cases. It was unclear whether these were 161A's or 161B's or 163A's.

Charlie

John,
Thanks for sharing your very interesting letter of some 50 years ago.

Charlie,
According to Ehrhardt's book "Hamilton Pocket Watch Identification & Price Guide", page 9 and 10, there was a "809" 161A movement lot of Bunn Specials produced starting in 1947.

It also mentions the following: "Lot of standard Illinois "Bunn Special" from the Springfield factory inventory, lacking balance and hairspring. Fitted with Hamilton #992B balance and hairspring, with standard Bunn Special balance staff".

This information agrees with and supports the "Hamilton" letter that you referred to in your post and the letter that John posted to start this topic.

Apparently these movements were fitted into Hamilton #3 (tu-tone) and #12 cases.

I'm not sure how many "Bunn Special" collectors there were in the late 40's, probably very few, but I would guess that several of these movements were removed from the #3 and #12 Hamilton cases and places in other cases.

I suppose Hamilton decided to use these two cases because they were introduced about the same time (1947-48) as when they decided to sell the inventory of "Bunn Special" movements.

Robert

I can only assume the 161B's were finished in the very last efforts, after all the A's were finished, Charlie. I could be wrong, but I always assumed a production date of 1948 for the 161B's.

Would be nice if more information were available on them and certainly would have been nice if an interview of Hamilton production workers on these watches had been done sometime in the '50's or 60's before they all retired or died off. The youngest I can imagine any Hamilton worker being in the late '40s time period when these watches were finished, would be around their early 20's in years of age and that would put them in their very late 70's to early 80's today. I am afraid it is a little too late to have exact information on exactly when and what was happening on them now.

It is letters like this that help us fill in the squares of our many questions and help us with our "educated suppositions". Oh to be able to go back and record it with proof as should have been done by the few collectors of that time period. Looking forward to seeing everyone in Cleveland on Saturday! Happy Hunting to all!