Have a Waltham Model 83 Lever set s/n4865191 and the data base shows it to be 11 jewels and the movement is stamped 15jewels also,data base states it is a sidewinder.To me that means the crown is at the 3 o'clock position but it is at the 12 o'clock position.Just wondering what I have here!!

another

movement

the 15 jewel stamp is not colored in black

Hi Roger,
Those dials were later made for hunting movements so that the winding would be at the 12 o'clock position when in a open face case. The giveaway is that the seconds bit is at 3 o'clock instead of 6 o'clock It was an attempt to overcome some RR requirements that said the watch had to wind at the 12 o'clock position

The 11/15 jewel watches were sometimes marked, sometimes not. Some were deliberate attempts to deceive since you couldn't tell whether the plate under the dial was jeweled or not unless of course you disassembled the watch

regards,
bb

Thanks,Buster I think it was probably meant to deceive since the 15jewels stamp is not in black as is the other stampings on the watch.Anyway it is a good looking and good running watch

That is a 11 Jewel watch that some nefarious person has hand altered with a bogus jeweling mark. Good running movment though. Nice Dial, could be Swiss aftermarket.

I think Dave is right...Swiss. It looks like it says Wallham, not Waltham

Good eye Roger,I have looked at it several times and did not notice that! Upon looking again the second "L"in Waltham has a straight mark in about the center to represent a "T" and is also true of the "T" in watch.I did compare it with another 18s. Waltham of same movement and they don't even resemble one another.The latter haveing larger script and fancier.I purchased the latter from Philip on IHC and I know it tobe the real thing.

I wonder if Waltham used different script from time to time or different on jewel count movements as the one I got from Phil is 17jewel wheareas the"fake" appears to be 11jewels.

Hey Roger,
I have several Walthams with the same script as your's. Also several with completly different script. I think your watch is genuine,except for the 15 jewel marking. Don't know what becomes folks to do things like that. Reminds me of the old days when some guys bought "High Performance 289" emblems and put them on their 2 barrel Mustangs.

Roger,

I believe the mvmt is an authentic Waltham with a stamped [upside-down] "15 Jewel" marking that was absurdly added at a later time

I believe the dial is a after market possibly Swiss item that was being mentioned earlier, not the mvmt.

Someone had too much time on their hands and/or should've had supervision

regards,
bb

Thanks everyone,I feel better now about the movement.Hey Cecil,had one of those high performance Mustangs a long time ago.Wish I still did!!!Roger

Cecil is correct. The watch is genuine, and 11 jewels. Also, Waltham never marked anything to deceive.