I thought I would start a new discussion since I think we have concluded that my 17 jewel PL Hamilton 934 s/n 24,836 has been cleaned and does not have a cleaning issue that we know of at this time.

Here is what I have done to it today but it still will not run;
1) I have cleaned it with Zenith 67 wash and dried it with Drizebrite.
2) all the pivots look good and I have used pithwood to clean the pivots.
3) I used a sharpened pegwood to clean out the jewels and I visually inspected the jewels.
4) I replaced the mainspring.
5) I re shellacked the loose roller jewel and got the watch back in beat the best I can.
6) I oiled the pivots in the jewel mountings.

Here is the problem.
1)The Balance wheel now spins back and forth and will come to a sudden complete stop. The pallet fork moves back and forth and moves the escape wheel back and forth but will not advance the escape wheel.
2) The third wheel has a broken jewel in the top plate which I most have broken either with the pegwood or fighting to re assemble this full plate 18s Hamilton.
3) it will occasionally over bank to the right meaning the roller jewel comes out of the pallet fork and rest on the left side of the roller jewel.

I do not know which way to adjust the two banking screws to try and adjust them. I have never messed with them before. Any suggestions in this area would be greatly appreciated.

Any and all recommendations are greatly appreciated. If anyone needs to see any photos you can go to my post "I Need some cleaning suggestions" and if you need any other pictures just tell me what you need.


I had re shellacked to roller jewel once before but it was re shellacked too low and the pallet fork would not work. I have re done the roller jewel and it works fine now except it the balance wheel comes to a sudden complete stop which it was doing before I started this project.

Harry, When I got to this point with my Harley a few times over the last 50 years, to avoid going nuts I had to set it aside for a few days, drive my car and just let things re-arrange themselves in my mind.

Usually then it came to me that ths last thing I did was probably wrong, and I worked backwards from there. But ONLY after leaving it set aside for a few days.

Thanks David. I'm afraid I'm forced to move on and wait on another jewel. I will do some thinking but since it is doing the same thing as it was when I first purchased it I think it is something I have not discovered yet. It is working a lot better than it was it just keep coming to a sudden and complete stop. It doesn't slow down and stop it just stops. Like it is hitting something. The escape wheel just rocks back and forth. The roller jewel may be on the edge of being a tad to long and may be hitting the head of one of the cap crews.

I will move on to my Illinois Central. I am trying to re case it so I'll think about the 934 and wait on a new jewel.

David thank you once again for your wonderful advice and help. Your love and compassion for this hobby really show.

I had this problem with a Hamilton 974. I broke one of the jewels on reassembly (If it does not fit with just a little bit of jiggling of parts, DO NOT FORCE IT as something WILL break). With that jewel broken it will not work. If it is cracked and the hole is still the right size, it should work, but does need to be replaced. Now as I am not familiar with 18s watches, all I can tell you is about my 16s watch issues. When I had one with an issue with the balance hitting, literally hitting the pallet fork, I adjusted (very little) the banking pin that was being hit just a little to allow the pallet fork to swing open just a little more and therefor allow the roller jewel to fit back into place and swing past. I have also found that if the roller jewel is too long, short, crooked, or has debris on it (shellac or glue) then you can have the same problem. I also had an issue with the roller table having a bur on it right where it would meet the pallet fork and cause it to stick.

With that said, I would take the movement out of the case and adjust the banking pin on the side the roller jewel is getting stuck (dial should also be off of course). The balance might actually just swing free and the watch will start ticking. If not, with the smallest screwdriver you have, you can rotate the balance away from where it is sticking, like you are dialing on a rotary phone (never towards the pallet fork, as this will either break the roller jewel or mess up something else) to give the pallet fork room to move and then let the balance go. I try to think of these parts in my mind before moving them. Remember that you should consider only moving parts in the direction they are intended to go (i.e. a balance staff rotates on its axis, never on it pivot, that will break it for sure, so when you mess with the balance you want to rotate it, not press on it or pry).

Ok, I typed a lot of stuff here, I hope some of it works and none of it hinders. If you are feeling a bit unsure of all the stuff I just listed, I plan on taking a few pics and posting after I finish some honey-do's besides, my team is not in the playoffs, so I will have some time

Hello Dan,

Thank you very much for your information. Unfortunately the jewel is shattered and the 3rd wheel is slightly out of the center. I still do not know how it happened but that is not important.

I like the 18s but boy they are a pain to work on. The full plate makes it almost impossible to see anything. With most 16s you have a lot better viewing angles. Also with the 18s trying to line everything back up is also a pain. I must have broken that jewel either withe the pegwood cleaning the jewel or putting to much pressure on it without it being lined up.

Once I get the jewel I'll start work on it again. I strongly suspect one or both banking pins may be out of adjustment but I can not figure out a way to view the roller jewel on these 18s. On my 16s 3/4 plates it is pretty easy to see but on these 18s I can't see a thing.

I'm looking forward to seeing your photos and thanks for your suggestions.

Harry have you went through Chris's Watch Service Checklist as this is a great place to start. If you are still trying to run it with a broken Jewel then you need wait till I hook you up with one. So with the pallet fork, bar out does the train have back spin ??? as far as measuring the pivot so I can send you the correct jewel Harbor freight have them for a reasonable price. And when the NAY sayers say buy a $300. digital Micrometer Just remember a $30. will do for what you are measuring.

Hi Gene I sent you an email with the pivot size 0f 0.34mm. As for the train I will need to wait until I get the jewel to tell but it did seem to spin when I had the bar out but I really don't remember if it was back spin or forward.

I will go through Chris's list again. Maybe I missed something it is a pretty long list.

The jewel I have will work and also the regulator. I measured it.

Ok, I ended up making a video and youtube account and all that. So, go to:
Here
to see the video. Not sure about the setting I picked. Let me know if it does not work.
Dan

Alright Dan. I have to change computers now so my wife can go to bed. Thanks.

I might be wrong but under 99.9 % of the times the banking pins never need to be adjusted. When I first started out I was always adjusting pins. They normally never need adjusted unless you are replacing roller jewels. then if you are needing to adjust the pins it normally means you have installed the wrong size roller jewel. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm always up to learning something new. But not tonight as I'm getting ready to go to sleep.

Good Night Gene. The roller jewel was loose and I had to re shellack it. When I re shellacked the roller jewel it was too long and binding. I re shellacked it again and it is running much better but may still be just a tad long as it is acting like it is hitting something and comes to a sudden and complete stop. I don't know if the jewel has been replaced nor do I know how far it is suppose to protrude under the roller table. This movement was in horrible condition and even with the problems it still has it is a lot better than when I started. My biggest problem is I can't see the roller jewel interact with the pallet fork as the plate and hairspring obstruct my view.

Thank you Dan it worked great. So I guess I don't need to see it to adjust it. That is great news and the video was great. Thank you.

Glad that the video played for you and hope that it was useful. I usually leave the banking pins alone as well and like Eugene said check all the other things first (like I mentioned earlier with burrs or build-up around the roller jewel, misaligned roller jewel, etc.) before messing with banking pins. If you have cleaned the movement, oiled it, checked the things I mentioned and it is still binding then consider adjusting the banking pins. I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination but do enjoy getting an old watch up and running again. I found some of this article useful. I read through it once and re-visit it from time to time, it is called A Day In Watch School:
http://www.tp178.com/jd/watch-...l/5/article[1a].html
Or you can google A Day In Watch School and look for part 5 (the other pages are good too. Overall it is interesting insight into watchmaking I think.

Thanks Dan for the Info on the day in a watch school. I'll check that out.

Thank you Dan for your valuable and useful information. I will go look at the watch school video right now.

Harry, Hamilton, Waltham, Elgin makes no difference, I have a Elgin 12s I serviced and it seemed to run fine but then it started to loose time, 4 hours in 24 hour period. OK, so what is slowing it down? I started by just running the drum and it seemed to be fine so I inserted the 4th wheel and it would bind about every 19th revolution or so. It drove me nuts & (I ain't got far to go) so I finally used a felt pen and marked all surfaces with moving parts and found ink removed in the MS barrel chamber. I highlighted the area and machined it off and Wa La the drum turned freely. I also had to machine a little out of the bridge but now if anything it is running a little fast. Slow down and study your situation. Add one part at a time and see if it still moves freely. Parts can warp.
Patrick. 1616

Thank you Patrick. Yes parts can warp. And they also wear out. This 934 has seen a lot of use not to mention it is one of the oldest Hamiltons out there. I think Hamilton started selling in 1893 or 4 and if I remember right this is a 1896 or 8. I like your idea about the marker. When I was a machinest many many many years ago we had this purple blue colored die we used on metal. That would be perfect but one can would last me 3 life times. I like the marker part. I can see if the roller jewel is dragging on something and go from there.

Thank you Dan...the tip on "a day in watch school" was very helpful...I watch youtube videos and I'm planning to purchase some course dvd's...but lots of great stuff there...part six on hairsprings in particular..

Yep, between this web site, the internet, Fried's book on watch repair and just trial and error, there are a lot of resources out there

Harry,
Hope this info helps and keep us informed of your progress!
Dan

Harry I would concur with Eugene, you should not have to touch the banking pins unless they were bent accidently during your re-assembley. If work was carried out on the roller jewel that would be the first place I would go back to, double check length & positioning after you replace the damaged jewel. Also the blue stuff you used during your days as a machinist to check tolerances was what we call 'bearing blue' over here, the otherside of the Pacific.

All the best in your endeavours,

Bila

I will Dan. I have a new jewel on the way and when I get it I will be right back at it. Thank you for all your help and the information you provided was very very helpful.

Bila good day mate and thank you for your thoughts and suggestions. The work I have done so far on the roller jewel is just to re shellack it into place and position the flat side out. I don't know how far the roller jewel is suppose to project from the roller table as I don't have that information so it is just trial and error.

I have looked for the information but I can not find it. It is straight in the table though.

My problem is two fold though. The new jewel may fix the escapement right now it just rocks back and forth and does not advance and there is no sense trying to figure it out until I replace the jewel. The other thing is that the balance wheel stops like it is hitting something. But it will swing several times and then just stop. Again I can not look any further into it until I replace the jewel

I have gotten a lot of good information so I just have to try one thing at time until I find the right thing. After I replace the jewel I will use Chris's check list again to see if maybe I missed something last time.