For those interested, but who might not be on the regular mailing list, the following is a link to a big-time watch auction, which is being held this Sunday in New England:

http://www.jones-horan.com/

They're offering a crystal plate Waltham (#16), as well as an interesting Fasoldt, and lots of other cool watches.

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I tried to post this message on the NAWCC "Pocket Watches" forum, but when I attempt to post anything on any of the NAWCC forums now, I get the following message:

"The administrators of this site have removed your ability to post directly to this forum. As a result, your message has been placed in a message queue. If the moderators approve your post, then it will appear in the forum."

My guess is that a certain group there has finally succeeded in persuading the Administrator(s) there to restrict my posting privileges to an "on approval" basis, but that's just a guess; I haven't received the courtesy of any sort of "official notification."

In any event, the Moderator of the NAWCC PW forum hasn't yet given his "permission" for the above message. Perhaps that will be forthcoming sometime after the conclusion of the auction!



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Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas

At first glance this appears to be a Model 1 keywind ca. 1867-1868. Similar in most respects to my Culver pictured below.

However, there is an extra case screw next to the regulator that is more indicative of a Model 2, stem wind, lever set first introduced about 1873.

Anomalies:
1. The serial number pre-dates the model 2.
2. The case screw at the upper right seems out of position for a model 2.
3. If it is a model 1 there shouldn't be a case screw next to the regulator.

It is housed in a stem wind, lever set case although I can't tell from the pic if there actually is a setting lever. I'm a little confused.

Wayne, is it possible this movement sat in the factory for a few years and was re-worked somehow?

Jack

It has been brought to my attention that the reason my posting privileges on the NAWCC forums have been relegated to an "on approval" basis, is so that the Administrator there will have an automated (and accurate) record of everything I post before a couple of the Moderators get a chance to maliciously delete it.

That being the case, there's no doubt that the minor inconvenience to me will be far outweighed by the benefit of not having half the stuff I post disappear.

My apologies to all for drawing the wrong conclusion!

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SM

I guess anything is possible, but I highly doubt that this was factory work.

Firstly, During the first decade, Elgin was selling everything the could make and expanding the factory as fast as they could. I doubt that too many watches sat unsold, even high grade watches such as this H.Z. Culver. (This is not true in later years.)

Secondly, keywind watches continued to sell well for many years since people didn't always like new fangled contraptions. The keywind H.Z. Culver was continued to be made until ca 1875.

Thirdly, a model 2 watch has a lever that toggles back and forth, much like an Abbott's attatchment. You would need to wait for a model 3, which was even later.

The description from the auction says:

quote:

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374 Elgin National Watch Co 18S GF HC #26881, HL Culver 15J mvt c1867 (first year of production) 54mm, features lever setting and either stem or keywinding

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Note that they call it an HL Culver. I'm not sure where the L mistake came from, but that is the way it is recorded in George Townsend's "Everything" book.

The Elgin Watch Collectors Website

OK - the sale is history - what is the scoop? Who got the really cool pieces... at what cost?

Desmond Lundy

The Culver discussed earlier in this thread went for $160.00. A Wheeler from the first year of production listed as a 16k-18k case went for $600.00 both to Cranster.

Jack

Jack & Wayne,

On the Culver, my guess is someone added the second case screw just to keep the movement from falling out of an incorrect case. This movement should have had only one case screw with a pin on the opposing side to interface with a KW case.

John D. Duvall
NAWCC Member 144772
NAWCC IHC Happy Camper 192
Chapter 185 Watch Repair Moderator

John:

Adding a case screw is not trivial to do compared with out easy it is to add a pin hole to a case, but you may have a point.

The number of case screws and their locations aren't the only "problems" with this watch, it is also has a much later type of lever setting. If this watch is really just a plate from a H.Z. Culver stuck onto a another movement, it wouldn't have the pin on the dial plate and thus would require a second screw to keep it from falling out.

The Elgin Watch Collectors Website