Hello All; I was just looking at an Elgin FatherTime, size 18, 21 jewel, hunter model. Serial # is 6,654,935. The seller states this is a grade 995, my Ehrhardt book lists this # as grade 164, 17 jewel, model 2. I am not able to find any reference to a grade 995. This watch is currently listed for sale on ebay. What do you guys think?. Thanks. Gary

Hi Gary, When I run the numbers I get the same thing Sr#6654935 is a Grade 164 18 size Model 2 17 Jewel Hunting mvt total produced 6,000 apx year 1897. But when you run the numbers in the Elgin datebase is where you see the grade 995 which it also states that this the same as a grade 164. In the movement picture it is a 21 Jewel. Maybe someone else can shed some more light on this.

Elgin Sr#6654935

Elgin Database:

Search Results For "6654935"
Serial Number SN Range Quanty Name Year grade size code jewels Adj/reg/etc.
-------------- -------- ------ ---- ---- ----- ---- ------ ------ ------------
6654935 6654601 400 FT 1896 995* 18s hfn2l 21j Adj
first run of grade 995; all produced in one year;
335 of 1000 in grade;
# Elgin Master Records say these are 21j FT (was G=164)


grade total runs first yr last yr class size code jewels Adj/name
----- ----- ----- -------- ------- ----- ---- ------ ------ ----------
995 1000 2 1896 1896 1 18s hfn2l 21j Adj / FT

(*) notes on grade 995: # this is really a G=164


Class 1: 18s HC fp
27 45000 made lever model 2-4 15-17j Adj Marked BWR, None or STD. are there really unmarked mvts?
69 29154 made key model 1 15j U-A Marked BWR or None. gilded are there really unmarked mvts? # REG_FREE or REG_ELGIN?
70 74500 made lever model 2-4 15-17j Adj Marked BWR, NWC or None. gilded are there really unmarked mvts? # some are "transitional" Either Keywind or pendant wind.
149 9600 made lever model 2-4 20-21j Adj Marked None, 149 or FT. double roller starts at 10422401
164 5000 made lever model 2-4 17j Adj some were changed to G=995
183 11702 made lever model 2-4 17j Adj Marked BWR.
348 3698 made lever model 2-4 21j Adj Marked 348.
995 1000 made lever model 2-4 21j Adj Marked FT. this is really a G=164

I'm hoping that Ed Ueberall will chime in here as he would have the exact info. He and Kent had a blurb on this in a former RRCorner Column in the "Bulletin".

For that SN run of Father Time movements, they were originally assembled as 17J movements that were found to be out of style before they hit the street. Many in this run were taken back and upjeweled to the 21J movement seen here. I have one from this run that is listed as having been upjeweled.

I believe this is what is leading to the confusion.

Tom

Thank You for your replies. I am not familiar with any online data bases. Are they available for other makes and would you be kind enough to provide info on where to locate them. I am especially interested in Hampden, as I am currently "trying" to create a file to catalog my treasures, and have little serial # info on this maker. Again, Thanks. Gary

Hi Gary,

For Elgin info Look here

Hope this helps,

Joe

Thank You , that serial # list was very helpful and is bookmarked for future reference. Gary.