Can anyone tell me the time period for this specific type 24 hour dial? I've seen other Canadian 24 hour dials with red 12-24 numbers, they date around 1910 or so-but these are a mystery I'd like to solve!

This dial is certainly missing what I see on our own old posts thanks to Dave Abbe and Ethan Lipsig- The nice scripted type numbers make all the difference...

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4726044861/...551068592#2551068592

Thanks for sharpening my eye, Lindell!

I'm no Elgin expert, but just going on general stylistic features, I'd say Ethan's and David's dials in the link is much more in keeping with the early 1900's swing-ring case era than the CPR-style dial that's in Marty's first post.

My friends,I realize this BWR is a 16S, but my concerns were for the Elgin
18S dials of the same style. Lindell,I believe you gave me a date for 16S dial production,correct?

What can you tell me about the 18S? I'm especially interested in when production ended,and that seems much harder info to find.

Let me make this clearer-if 18S pocket watch production ended about 1920;then surely the Elgin
18S Canadian dial was made much earlier than that date.

I tried loooking at this earlier today but there is a "bug" in the listing that keeps kicking me to some other eBay department when I tried to see the pictures in detail. The dial looks to have different origins not likely shared with Elgin. I have a loose "legitimate" 16s 24 hr Elgin at the house and will re-visit this thread later with that example.

Dave-

This is a tough one; Lindell has only verified the 16s for about 1920, and 18s pocket watch production ends about then...At least in the USA! But I can't imagine these were made in 1920 to replace dials on older 18s pockets...? That seems quite a stretch.

Here below this post is the same dial that I bought a couple days ago on an 18s Elgin... I want replace a dial on a 23j Veritas- one like Ethan has- but time era correctness matters to me.

I contribute to this conversation pics of two porcelain dials with early "style"
Elgin Numerals. One being single sunk and the other being double sunk. I must add that while the DS dial looks "brand new", it was filthy when I got the watch (BWR 19J s/n21771451). It just cleaned up nice, but I had enough coal in my cleaner to fire up a locomotive!

Dave-Here is your 18s Elgin Canadian Monty(on a BWR #240),then Ethan Lipsig's Elgin Canadian.(Mine is like Ethan's.)

Can you tell me if you think these two dials are from the same time-era? Also-do you think your dial was original to the watch?

Now Ethan's...in a Veritas 23j-

Dave-When viewing those ebay pic's don't click on them-just leave your mouse on the pic' and it will show up!!

Thanks Marty, Regarding your question about "originality, I post 4 pictures below that include the earlier 24 hour watch of mine that you inserted above with the following comments (by pictures so noted)

16s Elgin c.a. 1910 and 18s c.a. 1909; When I restored these, there was no cause to doubt their period originality, the Arabic fonts are the same, and they both exhibit the “Royalty-Free”. (?) Elgin/Monty copy.

16s Elgin c.a. 1921 and 18s c.a. 1901; I have yet to restore the 16, but must say that the 16s is ALL ORIGINAL, with the heavier “box car” era Arabic numerals which were more typical of the 1920’s. The 1901 Elgin dial is virtually flawless, and is the same “box car” affected style as Ethan’s Veritas. I think due to the overall condition of this watch that the dial is a later replacement.

With that discussion in point, I would surmise that Ethan’s dial is more likely original if the Veritas movement s/n is over the 23,000,000 range, and possibly a replacement if it is significantly lower than that.

The only 23J Veritas I have is a 1907 Lehigh Valley RR service marked piece with a much used (and abused) dial that entertains the lighter font which underscores my thoughts about the vintage of Ethan's being the determinant to the "correctness" or originality of his dial. Either way, I personally would be proud to show Ethan's watch anyway!

Lindell do you happen to have the combination number for your storage vault at fort knox?

This thread has become an excellent reference source for Elgin Dials. Keep em coming, every post helps us all make more sense of our watches!

David, I confess that my Veritas is circa 1910, SS#15,475,060, which makes you think my dial might be a replacement. Nevertheless, Lindell's similar wind indicator dial on a watch of approximately the same vintage as mine suggests that my dial might not be a replacement.

Dave,Lindell,And Ethan- Three cheers for you guys;it really did take all of you to get to the bottom of this-I thought when I started this post I was asking a very simple,direct question( )-I really should know better by now!

Because of my naivety,this post was made more and better...The pic's are beautiful, and the time-era info about these dials has been sorted out.

Thanks,my friends, for your patience and help. Again.

Ethan, after some discussion about this, I agree your dial is a style that can be original to the vintage of that watch. The earlier lighter styles were more turn of century fashion dials, while yours marked the beginning of the 20th century styles. This was also the same period where the metal dials (at a much lower manufacturing cost) were also offered with the same graphics. I add a page(thanks to Mr. Ehrhardt)from Elgin's catalog about that same time as your watch was made. btw note Elgin's catty reference to the bogus Monty as "continuous minute figures Style".

Great addition,Dave. Do we have a date on these metal dials,or is all this in a grey area-say around 1909-10?