This watch came across my table at the local Flea Market today. The lady said it was her Grandfathers.

The dial has a couple of hairlines.

The mainspring is broke. Serial # 23885831

Someone put a big crown on it.

Here is the case. All comments welcome. I normally don't buy engraved cases. But I'm sure the lady did not faked this one.

The Pennsylvania Railroad lettering looks looks modern to me, and I would also question the B of LE engraving.

Although the RR grade movement dates to 1920, the history of the case is totally unknown. I see no reason to doubt its authenticity. It might be a recase, or maybe the lettering was added at a later date, or maybe the jeweler who made the engraving didn't have the right template, maybe those fancy letters look a little effeminate, but it still could be authentic don't you think?

It does not look like it was recased. It has the original screw marks. The way I purchased it I doubt that it was a modern forgery. Some one might of had it engraved 40 to 50 years ago. When they where retiring from the railroad. Who knows for sure. The case is not worn out with only 1 jewelers mark. I paid for movement and case value only. A modern forger would of wanted Pennsylvania case price. Like I said earlier all comments welcome.

Back in the 20's I am assuming it would of been machined engraved.

Eugene, while the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers (B of LE) locks very much like the script lettering you see on these type of cases, the PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD in block lettering looks new to me,

Larry

I agree it does look out of place.

On the other hand, I notice the word "OF" is the same font and size as 'Pennsylvania Railroad'; and, you might even say it looks squeezed in there. Maybe BLE is just the man's initials and the case was later made to look like a RR case.

How old was the lady? Did she say her Grandfather actually worked on the railroad? Perhaps he was an accountant whose Father worked on the Pennsy and he just had this done as a nostalgia thing, the possibilities are endless.

I believe it was all engraved at once. Had only the BLE been done it would have been centred on the case.

If she shows up at the Flea Market again perhaps you can ask a few questions.

One way or the other, a nice looking watch.

I agree..

The BofLE was a labor organization that represented its membership and was made up of the "craft" of locomotive enginemen that worked for all of the various railway companies.

The Pennsylvania Railroad was a RR company.

Neither labor nor management had love for one another, although they often slept in the same bed.

The entire engravings would appear to be a later add on and creation of someones imagination or perhaps a RR junky wanting to appear to have an "official" RR piece of trivia that in the day, never was. Or it could be a later tribute to an engineman that served on the Pennsy that he/she wanted or their kids wanted for "Dad/Mother" as a cherished gift, or entirely a made up piece from an entrepreneur wishing to add value to a common RR watch.

It is likely the engravings may have been added to a plain jane watch to command interest in today's times when 95% of the watches out there are not getting a premium nor much attention. I would not buy this as any shape or form as a factory engraved watch case from the manufacturer. Who knows when it was done......

IMHO, but of course.

regards,
bb

Yo! South Rail.

You made a cardinal sin calling a member of the late, great B of LE an engineman, from my 1998 Directory when I was Secretary-Treasurer of Division No. 355

"B of LE Terminology
Throughout the 135 year history of the B of LE certain descriptive terms have been developed that are distinctive to our Organization. It should be a matter of pride to our members to use the correct B of LE terminology in conversation and correspondence.
Here are the most commonly misused terms:
1.) B of LE members belong to local DIVISIONS - not lodges.
2.) The international headquarters of the B of LE in Cleveland, Ohio is the INTERNATIONAL OFFICE - not the Grand Lodge.
3.) The elected members of the B of LE Advisory Board are known as INTERNATIONAL OFFICERS - not Grand Lodge Officers.
4.) - - -and above all, a person who operates the locomotive is an ENGINEER - not an "engineman" as another organization and some railway companies would like us to believe. The locomotive ENGINEER is a member of a proud and skilled craft and tradition. By referring to him as an "engineman," an attempt is made to reduce his status and degrade his craft.
BELONG TO THE B of LE - BOOST THE B of LE - SPEAK AND WRITE THE LANGUAGE OF THE B of LE!"

Your right about labor and management having no love for one another but go figure. The logic of Division 127 Order of Railway Conductors at Danville, Illinois called "Jay Gould", there was a trainmen's lodge in Pennsylvania called "Andrew Carnegie" that always left me scratching my head .

North Rail

Yo North Rail !!

Hope you are doing well Larry, I haven't seen your hawk down my way yet, he's usually here before now. But we had a severe drought last year and the pickings are slim to none.

It's hard to "write" so that civies will understand the rails language. So many people confuse a loco engineer with an engineer of many other trades that I elected to call the brethren engineers, "enginemen", so that it wouldn't get confused by the IHC majority.

I do recognize The Railway Labor Act and "craft autonomy". We rails understand the importance of each of the respected crafts within the labor infrastructure, one of which remains "engineers".

I do accept all responsibility with my creative writings blunder and would like to do 60 days actual suspension and waive my right to an investigation and representation to determine facts and responsibility, if any.

regards,
South Rail

Yo South Rail-!

Winter has finally arrived, we had about a 6 inch dump of snow yesterday, but the forecast looks good for next week, maybe my hawks decided to winter in Oklahoma, to avoid the drought.

I think the 60 day suspension would be in order, for this infraction, wouldn't have to resort to giving you 59 Brownies, taking numerous statements which which would put you too close to the "60 Club" where discipline would be more drastic, especially if you do not have insurance for those Payless Paydays from the BR&CF, or the LE&CMPA

North Rail