I did a search and turned up nothing. Does anyone know anything about International U.S.A.? Is it made by New York Standard? All the book says is the International U.S.A. made cheap no jewels watches. So I don't think this watch matches that description. It has gold screws and 17 jewels.

rear

Where do you find these things??!

I don't know. Years ago I bought a lot of movements and I did nothing with them. About 6 months ago I decided to collect 16s and 18s Hamilton, Illinois and Hampden. As I go through these things to put on Ebay or here I run across something I can't ID. I have a few more I need to ID and if I can't find the answer I'll ask here again.

This is what happens when you collect without direction.

Harry, The style smacks of New York Standard. The incongruity is the increbible Micro-regulator combined with an uncut Balance wheel suggesting they have an inside track that we no longer can realize.

The top movement plate cuts do simulate Elgin/Ilinois/Rockford, and a smatter of South Bend.

The dial is a work of art, where they came up with the starburst oriented numeric minutes yet conventional "American style" Hour numerals is an awesome stretch.

It would deserve a cleanup just to locate and then see if all "17 Jewels" are truly functional.

David you can not see it in the photo but the balance wheel is cut on both sides as most later American pocket watches are. It is very dirty. I think the balance is good and the hairspring looks alright. When you swing the balance wheel you can see tha pallet fork moving but the escape wheel just barely wiggles.

It is an open face movement about a 10s or 12s I'm not sure as I did not measure it. I saw a picture in the price guide of a NYS 12 model 1750 (?) I belive that looks almost identical to this except it is a hunter style but International U.S.A. was not listed under the NYS models that I could find.

I took the dial off and it is a 17 jewel movement. I count 4 cap jewels and the rest hole, roller, and pallet jewels.

Harry is it possible this was a Record Watch Company product? I have seen several different 16 s movements that all were labled differently but appeared to a friend, with more knowledge than I have, to be made by Record. Just a thought and your decision to collect Hampdens is wonderful!

Hi Deacon,

I really don't know. I have never heard of the Record Watch Co. and they listed in the price guide. I am sure it is not a 16s. I believe it is a 12s. The dial cleaned up very nice though which was a complete surprise to me.

My guess is New York Standard as the serial number seems in line with New York Standards use of prefix letters in the serial #'s

Thank you Ray. Yes the serial number is very similar and also on page 334 of the 2011 Price Guide there is a hunter case movement that looks almost identical to this open face movement. It is a size 12 No. 1570 HC top right picture. The only thing is under the size 12 movements there is no listing for a 17 jewel movement.

I got part of it figured out. It definitively is made by New York Standard. I found an old NYS 12s OF movement and it is identical except or the jewel count and inscription.

Here is what I theorize. Please let me know if you disagree or have a twist to my thinking. According the The Price Guide page 310 of the 2011 edition here is what it says about The International U.S.A. Watch Co. "This company produced only non-jeweled or low-cost production type watches that were inexpensive and nickle plated. Names on their watches include: Berkshire, Madison, and Mascot". They also have a Highland listed in their list.

They only have those 5 watches listed and none of the listing indicate any jewels at all.

I think International U.S.A. got NYS to produce a higher jeweled movement and put their (International's) name on it. Why I don't know unless they were trying to get into the higher quality movement market. NYS does not make a 17 jewel 12s movement according to The Price Guide and the only difference between the 15 jewel and the 17 jewel movements that I can see are two cap jewels.

Any ideas?

Harry you may be right. I have a nice 19j Trenton-Ingersoll and why they made it I don't know considering that they seemed to be oriented to the less expensive watches. I was thinking 16s when I guessed at Record. I believe Record produced the last Ball (435?) watches.

Thanks Deacon,

That is the only thing I can come up with. International U.S.A. must have been trying to get into the higher quality watch (without getting into the higher quality watches)and I think that is why they got NYS to make the movement.

It looks like a high quality watch with 17 jewels and gold screws and a gold micro-regulator but the serial number and the 17 jewels look cheaply stamped just as the NYS's. The dial is a very nice design. Even the demaskeening pattern is the same on the NYS as is on the International.

Now I am on the fence. I don't collect NYS's, I don't collect 12s but I would collect it if it were very rare. I don't know how rare this is but it looks like it must be pretty rare as know one was very familiar with it.