I have had them in the low 42,xxx range Kevin that appear to be Hampden finished, so anything is possible with these

I found another one. I have no idea who finished it. It is in the gap Bila referenced but it is a John Hancock #21202 and has a New York Watch Co. dial.

Harry

Have you got a picture Harry, being that low of number 21,202, it should have a long cock and uncompensated steel balance wheel with a New York Watch Co dial and would have been finished to my knowledge by NYWCo, and 16,200bph.

Kevin,

Thank you for the link, that list was recently added to the site.

Each run is noted by a year and where it was in the process of being completed. It's great to have runs listed and an idea of what they should be. I have been using it as a tool to help try and identify movements that could be finished after the name change. It's definitely not cut and dry, haha.

It would be interesting to see the raw data where this information came from, who knows what and where that is though!


Looking forward to seeing your movement. If your correct on the serial number, it's not in the inventory records.

Here you go Bila, Well now that I enlarge it I see my eyes were deceiving me. The serial number is either 21,209 or 27,209 take your pick.

Harry

Long Cock NYWCo Harry, 16,200bph mate, a nice pick up

Thanks Mate. It sure is nice to have you back!

Harry

Nice one Harry! Thanks!


This was my first New York, one of my favorite watches, and as far as I can tell it's in its original case. #18516.

It's a private label for S. Smith, Altoona, pa. Which is not too far from home. It matches the characteristics of a "Theo Studley" grade. 11 jewels with cut bi-metallic balance. 16,200bph.

When it was purchased, I had never spent that much on a watch before... And still handle it like the day it came through the door, haha! I wear it to watch related events only! It was so nerve racking to initially service it, with the fear of something happening to it by accident. I realize to many people it's not that nice, or special, but it is to me!

Just to keep on topic here is #47056.
Finished By Hampden Watch Co.
This is a Private label. E.J. Brooks of Palmer Mass.
It is supposed to be a "Billings" grade, and in the motion department in 1874-75. Note the jewel settings on this movement are faux screw set and match the Woolworth grade and not the Billings grade.

Research on the private label reveals that Brooks did not start selling watches untill at least 1875.

47001-47200 is the run and I have three observations. All have Hampden dials, two are private labels, and the other is marked........WOOLWORTH! Not Billings! So there you have it! Another watch started by New York and finished and sold by Hampden watch co.

This is the last one I have to show for Hampden finished movements under 58,000. I hope others will consider showing off some of their New Yorks or early Hampdens!

Dial

Couple of nice watches Rick. I don't have many NYWCo private labels. Hampden sure made up for that later. HaHa

Harry

That is nice Rick and Harry ,I am a bit off topic but NYWco 47xx went on ebay yesterday with a couple of NYS it sold for 50.00 , did any of you pick it up?

No I didn't, definitely thought about it, but I missed the end of the auction!

That would have been a great project

Kevin, was that 47xx serial watch a 3/4 plate model?

No I did not see it.

Bila , that was a 3/4 plate , like I said it was with NYS movements , but somebody else must have spotted it .

Hi Rick here is one I just picked up. The serial number is 50661. The seller said it was a Fredonia Watch Co. but according to the Price Guide it is listed as a Independent Watch Co. Fredonia purchased the left over inventory of Independent. Independent lasted until 1881. It is a Lake Shore Watch Co. which is one of the names Independent Watch Co. used and Fredonia used but it was made made by the New York Watch Co. and I believe may be one of the movements Hampden finished after taking over the New York Watch Co. According to what I can find out Independent was in business from !875 until 1881, Fredonia was 1881 until 1885, New York Watch Co in all it's name changes was from 1866 until 1876, Hampden took over the New York Watch Co. and produced there first watches in 1877. This watch #50661 was produced in 1874/75 which would be too early for Fredonia but fits right in the Independent time frame. Clear as mud.

Talking about a complicated way to market a watch...

Harry

dial

Your are right Harry, Independent Watch Co for the Howard Bro's mate, "Lakeshore Watch Co" was one of the names they used for their mail order watch businessThis one probably a Hampden assembled/finished watch from left over N.Y.W.Co inventory as you have said

Thank you Bila! Yes I wanted this for my Independent W.Co. Collection but it also fits my NYWCo. collection and even my Hampden collection. This one watch filled a lot of shoes.

Thanks mate,
Harry

Nice Harry, 3 for the price of one

Hello fellows!

Sorry I've had a bit of a mental lapse and haven't been around much for a bit. Sometimes the old brain gets overloaded and skips a couple beats. Life has been nuts.

Anywho... Awesome watch Harry! I really like the lake shore watches... I haven't been able to get my hands on one yet!

Yours is earlier than the others I've seen which are in the 63xxx range. Two others actually. Unfortunately I have a rediculous mountain of data entry to do for a couple different lists and I'm having a hard time getting to sit at the computer and just do it... So there may be more.

This is a fantastic article I stumbled on that describes the Howard's and their earlier companies, definitely worth a read.

http://app.chautauquacounty.co...EastMainPomfret.html

Thank you very much for sharing your watch!

Thank you Rick that was a very interesting read. Man there were a lot of those Howard's.
Harry

In a recent auction I got the chance to add a "Hampden" grade to the pile.

A few posts back, Harry showed 55466. His watch is really interesting because it's all Gilt.

Here is 55169, another Hampden grade watch. 11 jewels in pairs (verified) slow train (16,200bph). Nickel barrel bridge with wavy damaskeen.

Between inventory records and observations, I'm estimating 500 serial numbers for this grade and they only appear from 55,000 to 55,500. Pretty neat to have two nice, different examples in one thread!

Nice one Rick! I have occasionally seen these with the nickel bridge but not know much about them I did not know if they were pieced together or were made this way. Nice to know now that they were made this way.

Harry

Here is a Hampden I have 56164...All plate numbers match...Plain dial no name on it..

Nice one Gary! What a good looking example!

The novelty is another neat grade that started before the name change of the company. Yours matches a description perfectly. Nickel barrel bridge, 7 jewels and solid balance.

Your watch is listed in the "Jeweling" dept in 1875.
Looks like 55691-56500 is a large group of Novelty grade. Also, one has been spotted at 458xx. Different damaskeen and signature style.

Thank you very much for posting it!

Just for reference, New York Watch Co closed in 1875. Reopened as the NY Watch Manufacturing co, which only lasted about 8 months before closing, and the factory didn't reorganize and open as Hampden untill summer of 77.

This is paraphrased from The Watch Factories of America, Past and Present by Henry G. Abbott.

Here is a link to the free downloadable version on Google books. If you haven't read this book, and you collect American watches, it's a must read! A wonderful overview of watch companies in the 1800s. If you don't do Google books, I bought a hard copy online for less than a $20 bill. It's worth it!

https://play.google.com/store/...ails?id=I4zaVgAITRkC

So there was a ton of change in between 1875 and 1877, lots of movements remained from the old New York watch company. This area is quite interesting to me, which is the basis for this thread.

Hampden was still selling off early 3/4 plate new Yorks in the 1880's, along with E.W. Bond movements. So the serial numbers of Hampden finished and sold movements could be quite low.

If anyone has anything that could fall into this category, please put it up! Beautiful, ugly, parts movements, parts of movements.... We can learn from anything! If you don't want to post publicly (which I understand completely) you could always shoot an email to rickhufnagel7@gmail.com. So... that's my little speach about the subject.

Thanks for any consideration and have a good day!

Nice one Gary and they really are a "Novelty".

Harry

Gary,

Thank you again for sharing your watch. Can you satisfy my curiosity for me?

Some of the late NY/Early Hampden movements carry dials that (under really close inspection) have been buffed to remove the name.


I don't know if this picture will turn out well on here, but if you look in the circle on this dial, you will see a buffed area where "New York Watch Co" had been removed. Is there any chance your dial is the same?
It will be hard to see except in the right light, done at the factory I'm assuming.

Thank you for any consideration!

Rick I have seen buffed out dials before and I always thought is was a dial that had the wrong name or an incorrect style that was buffed out by an individual that did not have the correct dial wanted the watch to look more correct. I never thought of it being buffed out at the factory.

Harry

Rick I looked very closely at the dial on this watch and I don't see where anywhere that looks like a name had been removed...Here was a pic of the dial...

Gary, thank you for checking! Much appreciated

Harry, I've only seen it on mine, but have read about it being on Hampden/ny watches from this time and just trying to find more.

Not enough info for any sort of good answer though, sorry!