Well I could not find a better place for this so I guess this is as good a place to put this as any.
If it would go better somewhere else please move it.

I purchased a 18s Waltham 24 hour Canadian dial several months ago. The case was destroyed so I had to put it in another case. S/N 13731430 15 Jewel signed American Watch Co.

One of the reasons I purchased it is because someone had painted a red heart on the dial at about the 2 position. The heart has yellow or gold flames above the heart and what looks like a chain around the center of the heart. This obviously meant something to the person who owned the watch. I don't collect Waltham but this intrigued me for some reason.

I have since seen another dial with the same hand painted design on a pocket watch but it had two painted on it.

Does anyone know what this flaming heart represents?

Thank you,
Harry

Hello Harry --

That's an emblem/logo representing the "Sacred Heart of Jesus" -- a devotional cult that was popular within Roman Catholicism in an earlier era, and in fact served as the graphic logo of an order of Catholic clergy. I don't remember what the flames were intended to represent, but what you described as a chain around the heart is actually a representation of the "crown of thorns" which the Biblical account mentions was pressed upon the head of Jesus by the Roman executioners at the time of his crucifixion.

I've seen a handful of watches with these logos painted onto dials over the years, almost always on mid-level pocket watches (e.g., 17 jewel Walthams or Elgins)in plain (not gold)cases. Since members of the clergy within specialized "orders" were all required to take vows of poverty, it would have been deemed unseemly for members to be seen as possessing/displaying personalized ornamentation (like a gold watch), so these watches were specially "logo-ed" by the order and then issued to individual priests whose functions (like teaching school, for instance) would require a timepiece.

Thank you Damien it is very nice to meet you.

Thank you very much for your excellent explanation. The "chain" as I called it was a guess on my part as it is so old and the colors have faded. The ring of thorns is hard to distinguish and I am sure you are right. The original case was indeed a silverloid or nickle case that someone took a belt sander to in an attempt at cleaning it up.

I knew their had to be an explanation for the heart and now I know part of it's history.

Thank you very much again Damien,
Harry

Hello Harry, Bud here from Ontario, Canada.

I bought one a year ago, it's on an 18s Elgin in a Hunter Case.

From my own research on the subject I found a "story" that mentioned the aura around the heart and they said it was the "LIGHT" of Jesus.

I've always liked the dial for some reason.

Bud

quote:

Does anyone know what this flaming heart represents?

Hello Bud it is nice to meet you.

I suspect my watch comes from Canada. It has the 24 hour dial and there are a lot of Catholic's in Canada. It could be U.S. but I just do not think so.

The heart on mine is about the same place as it is on your beautiful hunter. Mine is however a open face in a plain silveroid case. Mine is also missing the second hand but I'll worry about finding that when I clean it and put it back together. I will try to post a picture tomorrow.
Mine just has the flame above the heart but does not have the glow around it as yours.

Thank you so much for sharing your photo. I hope more members will share their photos of the watches that have hearts on them.

Harry

Hello Harry, and it's nice to meet you too. I'm glad you like the dial I have, and thanks for posting yours. Since I bought mine about a year ago I've seen three others now including yours. They aren't quite as many of them as I originally thought.

Best regards.

Bud

quote:

Hello Bud it is nice to meet you.

Hello Bud,

Here is a photo of mine. Of course I have not cleaned it up yet. I have seen 3 including yours.

Harry

Close up of the dial.

And the movement.

Here's one that I have had for awhile and it doesn't look like any two of them are identical....

Regards,

Jerry

Hello Jerry,
That makes 4 I've seen. What size is yours? They are all hand painted and by different artist so far.

Harry

Dials with this image where carried by many male & female Parishioners of Roman Catholic Church's not just by Priests etc., it is still a common symbol today.

Tom

These early Hearts were painted on with pasty water colors and will disappear when you wash the dial so be careful if you wnat to save the artwork.

Thank you Tom for giving us more information about this.

Thank you David for the caution. I will not wash the dial because I like it and it meant something to someone at one time. I will just use a dry soft brush to whipe what little dust and dirt it might have on it but the rest of the watch gets a good cleaning.

Thank you both,
Harry

Harry, Mine is a 0size dial....

Jerry

Wow Jerry I have never seen one on a watch that small. It must have belonged to a nun.

Dave had a good tip on cleaning these types of dials. I have had painted dials that were nice except the added art work was not to my taste or had started to flake. I take a Q tip with a bit of goo gone and clean it off if that is the case. I would also add that I had a very nice Illinois getty hunter that I used denture cleaner on and it made the numbers go very faint. Just be careful.

I was using a professional jewelry cleaner in a cheap home ultra sonic cleaner that uses no heat and had very good results until I put a metal Hampden dial in it. I picket it up and the black ink started running all over my hands. I now have a metal blank with feet that match a Hampden.

I emptied the jewelry cleaner and put some liquid comet and it does great on the porcelain dials but the metal dials I just use the foaming hand soap out of the bathroom.

The "Flaming Heart" I will just dust off for now. It is not that dirty so there is no sense tempting fate.