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Sangamo 21J "Bright Spotted Third Pattern"!? "Click" to Login or Register 
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
While cleaning this, I was marveling at the incredible finish work by Illinois, even putting the plate patterns (I thought were fish scales Confused) on the Pallet Bridge

 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
Of course, this being a Getty, I was just enjoying all the work they did finishing plate work only the Watchmaker ever sees.

 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
I remain puzzled though, as the "Blue Bible" refers to this platework as a "Bright Spotted Third Pattern", for the 2800 of these movements ever done, and it still looks like Fish scales to me.

 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
Regardless, it remains a beautiful movement to me because it is a Getty, and it is still in fairly good shape for such an "Old Thing" made in 1894 . . .

 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
Now I have "whumpped up the gumption" to tackle the 23 Jewel I have been procrastinating on . . . but the question remains are these "bright spots"?

 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
Picture of Mary Ann Scott
posted
Dave - a not too close view I would call it fish scales. Up close I would call it wavy lines. Whatever you call it, though, it does present a dramatic finish to the plates! And it's one of your favored Getty's. Wink
 
Posts: 1047 | Location: The Colony, Texas in the USA | Registered: December 20, 2008
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
Mary Ann, These damaskeening terms are like "Bird Watching" to me, giving names to similar critters to describe slight differences at best. The work these people did where you cannot see it os what really impresses me. Look at the superfinished clutch wheels and Damaskeening on both sides of the main plate! Eek Roll Eyes

 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
IHC Member 1101
Site Moderator
Picture of Steve Middlesworth
posted
David,

Here is a picture of a Bunn Special "Fishscale" pattern. It also looks like the scales on a fish and I suppose Meggars had to differentiate the two pattern styles some how. How the "Bright Spot" term came about intriques me. Maybe its the way the light hits it.

Steve

 
Posts: 1980 | Location: Kentucky in the USA | Registered: March 18, 2008
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Good Morning David and Mary Ann,

Agreeing completely with Steve and adding just a bit more in the way of explanation. For the most part, terms for each style of Illinois damaskeening were originated by the late Bill Meggers in his efforts to help come up with an easy way to describe the differences that exist between them.

The term "bright-spotted" apparently refers to the bright circular area in the center and how brightness from the center gives the look of radiating across the movement whereas with a fish-scale pattern it is the same design all across the movement. Comparisons on pages 126 through 129 of the "Illinois Encycloperdia" might also prove helpful as well as the descriptions Meggers placed within his treatises on the different movement variations. As Steve mentioned, angles and light have quite an effect on our perceptions of these subtle differences. Below you will see a 23-Jewel with a fish-scale pattern, it is one of a mere 330 produced. Various manufacturers including both Hamilton and Illinois used such designs, others including South-Bend also come to mind.

Lindell


Illinois 23-Jewel Bunn Special with "fish-scale" pattern...


 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
Thank You Steve, Lindell, and Bill Meggers for explaining and creating some sort of digest to describe this incredibly beautiful finish work.
 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
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