Stephen mentioned something about not seeing many verge fusee's up on discussion. Here is one I found and thought I would get input on before listing it.

Better picture of the dial

Picture of the unmarked movement

Chain intact and it even runs still

Rob,

As close as I can tell there are only 3 or 4 other collectors on the 185 that like these..
what you have is a typical painted dial.. Popular around the turn of the century, that is the 1700's to the 1800's...it appears to be in good condition except the wind hole. The Swiss never did understand or address the problems associated with winding thru the dial on the verge fusee. that little heart thingy was probably added after the dial was chipped....Most people use an hour hand pipe of approriate diameter...
Movement is, again, a typical Swiss example.. the 2 big differences between the English and the Swiss, Swiss movements have the screw
adjustable crown wheel pivot and the balance cock with the 2 screw mounting.. They also lack any kind of decorative engraving..My opinion is they also were of inferior quality compared to the English..pertaining to gilding, gauge of plates and general workmanship..Does it run..??
Most watch people think fusee's are diffucult to work on, quite the contrary, there are very simple, with the chain set-up being the hardest part of servicing..Broken parts are a different story..

Thanks for info John It does run I will post a couple more verges I picked up.

Here is movement to that watch

Here is another

pic of its movement

John, If I am not mistaken, I believe that first movement is french. Please correct me if I am wrong

Bruce,

It may very well be.. Without signature it is hard for me to tell..I think Swiss and French had more similarities than differences..I am not an expert, just have observed and handled many..

Hi Rob,

Nice unusual Verge, I too believe it's French, they typically used that style of balance cock. The 'Tompion' style regulator also has 'A-R' (Avance - Retard) rather than the usual 'F-S'.

The horse rider and building on the painted dial would suggest maybe the far Southern areas of France (Camargue maybe) or even towards Italy or the Pyrenese, there does look to be a 'Spanish' atmosphere about the picture though.

The small centre dial and 'Breguet' style minute hand, would also suggest you have the inner case of what was origianlly a 'Pair Case' verge watch. The outer case would have had a smaller crystal which would only show that inner dial, and a chapter ring with (probably) Roman numerals engraved and filled with coloured lacquer.

If you look closely at the pendant, you may see marks where the outer case has gauled it somewhere - a common problem!

Best regards
John

While this may be a French product could anyone tell me why they think that..Most French watches are signed by the maker.. And if you look at where the large makers of French and Swiss watches are made, it appears to be about 40 miles apart along the Swiss and French boarder..

John

While the dial does have a feature of a Demi case with small dial, In 25 years I have not seen a Pair Case that winds thru the dial..Never say never is a rule hear also..In fact pair cases are some what difficult to find in either French or Swiss verge fusees.. But another hint is the 9 o'clock hinge.. To large to fit a pair case I would think..The Swiss also used the A-R to indicate regulation..Just check almost any Swiss cylinder watch..I believe they shared many common traits..with the French makers because of the language commonality..remenber this is the 1800's no internet transalator program..

John,

I have a verge fusee that is signed LONDON and is wound through the front.. I will see if I can find a picture

Bruce,

I have English fusee's that wind thru the dial, just not a pair case.. The English along with the Swiss and French made Consular cases, single hinged at the 9, silver and gold...and some with underpainted horn covering..Like this one..

And the back side...

One thing I have found that tells me French or Swiss.. the half moon upper fusee bushing is usually French..The style like robs first picture tends to be Swiss.

The dial is signed.

and of course the rear is "painted"

John P.,
I would have said French too. The basic rule of thumb is that if the watch is wound from the front and has two screws retaining the balance cock, its French. I don't know where I first learned this but I haven't heard it refuted yet.
I also don't know squat about Swiss watches from this era; actually, I thought that not much was happening there then.

As everyone knows though, hard and fast rules are made to broken! I think this rule sounds like a crib note to be used by the inexperienced
as an aid in navigating those rare istances when they might be offered one of these watches.
To John W.,
It was nice to see your reference to Camargue. I forget whether that is a town or province but I know it in near proximity to Arles where my wife is visiting tonight. They actually have bullfights there(without the gore) and a proud cowboy heritage.
-Cort
p.s.- Perhaps the Swiss made watches in the same style as the French and they got lumped together
by historians due their geographic proximity and to differentiate them from the Engish??-C

Hello Cort,

I hope your wife enjoyed her visit to Arles, and in particular the fabulous countryside around there.

Many of those major towns are now pedestrianised in the old quarters, so you can walk around them fairly free to enjoy the sights without fear of being lunched by a car (or motorbike usually).
Many of the old Roman amphitheatres are also being restored and used for concerts.

Hope too she gets to visit some of the REAL France - the outlying villages off the tourist routes - and well away from the major towns, she'll love it, the atmosphere can be quite heady in some of those places.

The Camargue is an area of French National Parkland and a designated area of natural beauty,(very) roughly running from Nice to Nimes along the Mediteranean coast of France.
Quite marshy, where wild horses roam & Bulls are raised, rice too is grown there.

My wife and I used to spend a month in Provence every summer, staying in varous villages touring the area, and after 20 years we're still discovering places we missed.

The hill villages particularly around Mount Ventoux would often hold village 'Fetes' on a weekend, when the main road would be closed off and barriers put across all open alleys and lanes etc.
The Horsemen, their entourage - and the bulls would arrive a couple of days earlier to 'set up shop'
On the day of the 'spectacle', around half a dozen horsemen would gather at one end of the street, when a bull would be let loose from it's pen.
The riders would then gallop at 'quite a lick' all the time surrounding the bull, 'guiding it' down the street into a pen at the other end.

Sometimes a bull would get away and then the fun would really start ......... surprising how fast folks can run too when it matters
The atmosphere was always incredible - and you never saw a face without a big smile on it!
Wonderful!

When you look at that guy on that painted dial, you are looking right at one of those Horsemen - even down to the whip and hat!

John.

John P.

Congratulations on finding and acquiring that watch, It's an absolute beauty!

If I can ever trim down my reply to your comments so that it won't send a glass eye to sleep, I'll post it, quite a lot of subject matter there to discuss!

I've appended below, photo's of a Demi-Hunter outer case, and also a named Swiss Verge movement.

Note the differences on this one to both yours and Rob's watch.
The balance cock has a solid plug rather than a steel 'end stone', and it's also wound and set from the back.
The movement isn't named, but the dial is!

John

Verge Outer Pair Case.
JW

Verge Outer Case.
JW.

Verge Outer Case Open
JW.

Swiss Verge - Tacheron or Vacheron ?????
JW.

Swiss Verge Movement - Tacheron or Vacheron???
JW.
Note Balance Cock plug and Avance - Retard written in full.
JW.

Great Watches there are beauty,s these are wathches i know very little about but they sure are pretty..

John,
Thank you for your post. I enjoyed it.
My wife returns tomorrow after a month in France
and I will show her your posts. Her trip was, obstensibly, intended to see our daughter Hayley settled into the University of Rennes(although the truth is she is ready to travel anywhere,anytime). Hayley nailed an apartment in the center of Rennes in the pedestrians-only zone which is,as you described, very civilized
(no "lunching" by cars etc.).

My wife, daughter and son speak French fluently though I remain an
American monolinguist. I may get the opportunity to improve my French during visits over the next few years though. Ironically, the socialized education system in France made Rennes the only university we could afford. We live 10 minutes from the University of California at Berkeley where tuition costs more than 170X as much(not a typo). The government even pays my daughter a stipend for her rent! I'm happy because I'll be able to afford a trip to France each year to visit. Oui!
-Cort

Ok I pulled this one out of the safe to sell and thought I would post it for those of you who like these old verges'

picture of the movement notice the cut outs in the edge of the inner case.

Here is a side view of the movement showing the hammer.

That is makers name Simon & Paul Beauvais London. THis is a pump repeater dates to 1713