In Cooksey's book, he shows 3 23J models, two are marked series 0, and one is not. The price difference is large. Is the unmarked watch a series 0, or is it something different?

There are a vareity of 16 size 23 jewel Howard movements.
The lowest serial number run (953,XXX) has straight finger bridges, a motor barrel and a unique "criss cross" damaskeen pattern.
Then the damaskeening was dropped, but continues with the straight bridges and the motor barrel.
Next, the plate style was changed to use a "hooked" finger bridge, also with the motor barrel. Some of these movements were marked "No. 0" around S/N 1,086,XXX; the earliest "Series 0" marking we have recorded is 1,112,XXX.
The final change also used the hooked bridges, but eliminated the motor barrel for jeweled banking pins. This change seems to start with the 1,116,XXX run.
Please note that Howard made these movements in both hunting and open face and with either pendant or lever setting.
Are they all the "Series 0"? I don't think that Howard was using that designation for their entire history, but it sure makes it easier to refer to them that way.
Also, I am NOT including the early 23 jewel movements made for Howard by Waltham. They are not "Series 0" movements.

would anyone have a picture of the Waltham Howard and the "regular" series O (especially the earliest ones) so that we could see the differences.
thanks
Bob

HI Rob
Here is a picture a 23J hopefully a string of pictures will follow to compare to

Here are the two Waltham-Howard bridge styles. The upper one is the first style produced and is merely a Waltham bridge style with the E.Howard name. The lower one is a modified bridge style done for Keystone. You can see the similarity, especially in the finger bridges, to the first Keystone-Howard, in the post above.

Chris and Jerry
Thank you very much.

I had always thought that the Waltham Howards were sold prior to the unmarked series O.
What I find interesting is that Chris watch has an earlier serial number.

Bob

The Keystone-Howards were not necessarily numbered in sequence with the Waltham-Howards, although there was an attempt to not have the sequence too mixed up. The first Waltham-Howards were numbered in the 800-thousands, often with an "H" prefix. Keystone referred to the Waltham-made movements as the 1903 model. By 1905 Keystone was making their own 3/4-plate movement (1905 model - starting at 854,001) but was still relying on Waltham for the bridge model. The last contract watches that Waltham made for Keystone were numbered in the low 1-millions. The first Keystone-Howard 23j bridge model (model of 1907) is 953,001 even though it was made later than the last Walthams. There are 19j Howard Series 5 movements with serial numbers in the low millions that overlap the Waltham products and probably duplicate some of them.

Well, here's a Waltham Howard with an H866...serial number. Also, the early ones were signed Howard Co rather than Howard Watch Co.



Larry