Would anyone know if Rockford ever made any 3- position lever sets for street railway use?I know they made a lot of nice RR grades, but I've never heard of any street rail types from them.Most all the other American companies made them, just wondering about Rockford. Thanks.

They made a few Ted, but whether that were aimed at the trolley market I am not sure as I have seen no advertising for this (as there is little of the period Rockford ads around). Also, I have seen none fitted with specially marked dials for the trolley's as you see with a lot of other Manufacturer's.

I would like to think that they were in that market as well as the did aim a lot of product originally at the Railroaders. I have attached a couple of photos of one of theirs, one that is not seen often at all and from late in their production towards the end), lever set marked "adjusted to 3 positions", Double Roller and Steel Escape Wheel has the High Grade Style Wheels, it is no longer in my possession.

The dial with lever visible.

Thanks Bila! That's a sharp looking Rockford! I too had never seen any of their ads to show that they were trying for a share of that market, which is why I asked. They made some pretty nice watches, I only have a couple of Rockford's, 2 935's ,and a 21j 918. Thanks again and stay well! TED.

It is a very nice watch Ted,but no Grade number is known for it as the records don't exist for these runs. I know there has been a couple of Researchers over the years that have made a projected Serial number and Grade production list from observations but I do not know how far it covers.

The only other of the 16 size Rockford's that I know of that were in the vein of Trolley watches they made were the Grade 550 & 555 (approximate production of 800 & 1000 respectively), these were only produced in small numbers, and I am yet to stumble across an example.

They were lever set, steel escape but to my knowledge only single roller going by the advertising (would love to get my hands on one to check it out). Also advertised as being adjusted to 3 positions but were not marked as such. The grade was directly below the 17 Jewel 5 Position Winnebago Model.

Just on your two, that Grade 935 was un-adjusted to my knowledge but still a very nice watch and they keep RR time. On that Grade 918 (I have had a few of these over the years), what markings are on the plates, as I think from memory I have seen 3 versions across the Model 9 & 10's.

Hope this helps with your query, keep your head down over there also with this virus thing that is happening.

Thanks again Bila!I wish there was more Rockford ads out there, and more info on them, but sadly that was so long ago, too bad nobody had the foresight to save that stuff! One of my 935's easily keeps RR time for an unadjusted watch, pretty looking too.The 918 is a nice fully marked one, 5 positions and double roller, they aren't any too common either.I'm lucky to have one! Take care of you and yours, it's bad here, I'm sure it is there too...Ted.

Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that there were no particular regulation for street/trolly watches, that it was more of a marketing thing. RR had the standards, inspectors, and authorized shops for regulating and signing off on timepieces. I didn’t think the street cars had the same structure. If this is correct it is the easiest explanation, marketing that some chose to do and others did not.

Kind of like the “museum grade” terminology a certain ebayer uses.

I have never really look at anything to do with inspection regulations and the trolley watches David. So done a bit of a quick search for stuff and apparently some of the Electric Railroads and Electric Interurban Lines did have rules.

It appears that they had time inspection regulations which were overseen initially by the Ball Time Service, around 1916, Ball apparently fell out of favour with these lines and another Inspector was appointed. So it looks like it was probably more then just advertising hype/jargon

David, the street railway systems did have standards and watch inspection,like the railroads.The so-called interurban lines ran on a lot of single track, so timing was pretty important to avoid collisions.It seems that most wanted 16 or 18s, adjusted to at least 3 positions with a double roller, lever set.The watch companies made a lot of watches for this market.A lot of them had special dials marked for street rail use.Hamilton and Illinois did a lot of these dials.I have a 16s Waltham 17J No. 637 with a Montgomery dial marked Waltham Electric Railway.These 'almost railroad" watches run as good and time as good as the full blown railroad watches.

Sorry Bila, looks like we were answering at the same time!

Thanks Ted, we were just typing and posting at the same time

Just on the Rockford advertising Ted, I have been going over a lot of old newspapers and some other research material I have seen.

Rockford appears to have not advertised hardly at all in the earlier years as the Company did not use "Jobber's" as such to sell and market product up to around 1896(except for repair parts material), they were effectively cut out of the loop mostly until towards the end of the first Rockford incarnation.

Apparently they promoted the use of "Sole Agents" for Rockford products all over the US, from what I have seen it appears that a lot of these were smaller "Watchmaker's & Jewellery" concerns.

These did advertise but in local papers of their respective towns but did not seem to produce catalogs of goods. I wonder if this was to promote the idea of having the Consumer come to your store, as it was probably much easier then to convince the person to buy a product and also maybe sell them other items as well at the same time (up-sell). Maybe this is one of the reasons for the dearth of Rockford Advertising you normally would see from the large Material Houses/Jobbers????

Bila, maybe some of that contributed to their downfall.I think back at that time they would have had to advertise hot and heavy to compete with the big guys. And apparently they didn't.But anyway they left behind some nice watches!

In Larry Treiman's article "Timing the Trolleys" he mentions Rockford watches.

"The Rockford Watch Company also made watches that met electric railway requirements. Unfortunately, Rockford went out of business in 1915 just about the time that electric railways were getting around to some standardization of their watch requirements."

He includes picture of a 16 size 17 jewel, 3 position, lever set movement.

"Some manufactures did not offer special electric railroad watches; possibly they preferred to settle for whatever share of the market they could get with their standard railroad grades."

Ed

Ed , after the fact I found that great article about the trolley watches.I did see the Rockford similar to the one Bila had.I found my Roy Ehrhardt Rockford book, there is an ad reprint in there also showing an 18s gr. 215 21 jewels adjusted.The ad stops short of saying it was intended for trolley crews, but sounds like it could have been. I've never heard of that grade 18s, must have been made right at the end.Thanks!, Ted.

Here's a 16s 3 pos. I don't have a photo of mine.

Thanks for that Kevin! That looks like the one Bila posted.Even shows a grade number for it.If you have one, must be a little on the rare side.Nice watch, Rockford's are good looking watches. Stay safe, Ted.

One thing I notice all the time about these Rockford movements,so many have a busted regulator whip.I see them on the bay quite often with either broken ones or none at all.I had to get a second 935 just to get a whip spring to replace a broken one on my 21J 918.So hard to find!

Thanks also Kevin, I have not seen that cut before

Ted, you are right about those Reg whip springs, a very weak design, (also probably doesn't help them when the uninitiated tend to screw the reg all the way instead of getting the watch serviced), a major problem on all of the Model 9 & 10's and a bear to find, as you have said