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Welcome Aboard IHC185™ Internet Horology Club 185 IHC185™ Discussion Site Main Page Horological Discussions, Questions and Answers Pocket Watch Discussions Bunn Special info request!
Internet Horology Club 185 IHC185™ Discussion Site Main Page Horological Discussions, Questions and Answers Pocket Watch Discussions Bunn Special info request!Go | New Topic | Find-Or-Search | Notify | Tools | Reply to Post | |
A friend has BS #4744980. The Meggers's book says it is a 21J 60 hour model 14, type 1, 1925/26. The dial is an unsunk Montgomery replacement model. The case is an Illinois 10K YGF model, serial #7811107. It hs no extra screw marks. I would like to see some images of the proper dials and if one is available, what would it cost. Meggers also said the watch was available cased or as a movement only. So maybe the case is okay. Any thoughts on this? | |||
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IHC Life Member |
It is supposed to have a "Double Sunk Bold Arabic Dial". If it was factory cased that would be a "Type 1". The case specialists will have to weigh in on a 10K case, as the 1926 vintage of this watch comes close to those meaning that it could well be a Owner-replacement. | |||
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David: On page 111 of the Meggers' book, for serial numbers 4492001 to 4747000 (this watch 4744980) "Some cased at the factory". It does not say all. Also, the ads for 1925 do not mention cases. And, a 1930 ad shows the 21 jewel BS available as a movement only! So, I am puzzled by this. | ||||
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| IHC President Life Member  |
Jerry, Let's begin with the "...some cased at the factory" quote which is because beginning in 1924 the Bunn Specials could be ordered factory cased. This happened around the time that 60-Hour Motor Barrel movements were introduced. However, the 21-Jewel Bunn Special (and the Hamilton 992) were available "movement only" through 1929 production, beginning in 1930 they came factory cased and timed only. And that "timed" part of "cased and timed" is important, as any watchmaker will tell you there will be variations in timekeeping depending on the case, so watches "cased and timed at the factory" would be more consistently reliable timekeepers. All that leads to the answer for your first question, your friend's 21-Jewel Bunn Special number 4744980 is in fact from 1926 production and it could have been ordered either as a movement or cased and timed at the factory. Now we move to the case, the "10K Gold-Filled" means it is yellow because in the Wadsworth Bunn Special Cases a 14K marking will be on white or green as well as two-tone white and green whereas the 10K Gold Filled was yellow only. You did not state which case style you have but I suspect a "first model" case, you will see a Yellow Gold-Filled First Model Case in the far right and lower examples in the image below this post. By that case number 7811107 the case lines-up with movement from 1928 production on our Bunn Specials, Marked Factory Wadsworth Cases Database and the fact there are no examples of case numbers beginning with "78" until well into 1928 where we find them consistently listed, would lead to the conclusion you have a 1928 case. We should also consider the 21-Jewel Bunn Special was a big seller, extremely popular in the mid-to-late 1920s so it is highly unlikely one would have been laying around for two years before being cased at the factory. Putting all that together your friend's movement and case would not be considered an original combination, but if his is a first model case it would be "period correct" but again, probably not original. By the way, all the Bunn Specials, in fact all Illinois Open-Face 16-size movements use the same case-screw positions. And finally to dials, check the advertisement below where you will see the two most typical dials to be found on mid-to-late 1920s 21-Jewel Bunn Specials. Both of those shown in the advertisement should be available. Notice the difference in seconds-hand length. Dial Number 115 shown in the upper image will have a shorter seconds-hand than 114 shown in the lower image. The hands shown below are the Illinois "Plumb Color" which were used on Bunn Specials during the time your friend's watch was made. Hope this is of help to you and others. Lindell  Check the dials shown below as a good starting point...  | |||
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Lindell: I think my case info was mis-leading. The case is an Illinois Watch Case Co. model #7811107. Sorry for not making that clearer. | ||||
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