I finally purchased on Ebay for $600 a 21j Illinois Illini adj to 5 positions in a Engraved 14kt Empire case with a hand carved ,raised gold fiqure dial in green gold.

What is strange to me is the under bid was at $425 --about the price of scrap gold.

An ad in 1925 showed this watch sold for $220 ( the dial was $20 more than the plainer style) while a 23j Sangamo Special in a 14kt sold gold case with inside cap sold for $185.

The Empire case was was the fanciest case used for the Illini. I have seen only one other hand carved dial ( in pink gold) and a friend reported seeing another hand carved dial.

Years ago a collector had a hand carved Illini dial watch along with two other rare 12 size Illinois in gold cases ( a 23j Illini and a grade 439 Extra). He wanted over $1500 for the three and felt that if someone bought all three they would stay together and thus would not sell them separately. A now Director bought the set and promptly broke the set up.

I never thought I would get this watch so cheap--my guess is that only a few with the hand carved dial were ever sold

Bob

the movement

You have purchased a very nice watch. I tried to get it by sniping at $525, but you aced me out. I probably would have bid a bit more, but I already have 4 Illinis and 3 Hamilton 400's (essentially the same watch), including a very nice Illini Grade 538 18k Empire cased watch, with a similar but less fancy dial than yours (for which I paid $456 15 months ago), picture attached. Still, I would have added your watch to my collection, but you beat me out. I am glad the watch is getting a great home.

Hi Bob,

Congratulations on another great find, looks like you have a open field on these “non RR 12S” truly rare watches. Coupled with a reluctance to bid above scrap value on any gold watch make a great time for a connoisseur collector.

Very nice, Bob. It pays to be vigilant.

Ethan
Thank you for posting your Illini--its great example of the Empire case with the "plain" dial.

I also own several other example but have always wanted a nice example of the hand carved dial.I am glad you didn't lust for it.

It still amazes me that over an 80 year period how little the Illini has accured in value even though it was Illinois premier watch at that time.

My recent experience is similar to what Chris said--with the run up in the price of gold people don't want to even pay scrap some times. I personally find it hard to pay $500 for a 7j Elgin just because it is in a nice solid gold case.

Bob

This is something that is happened more with a tight economy, as discussed many time previously, about all our watches being scrapped.

Think of it this way, next time you take the wife to the jewelers to buy a new chain etc. Try completely disregarding the $500 (or whatever) price ticket, take out your handy scales drop it on and tell him you will pay him full value scrap for it and wont make a deduction for the diamond chips see what his response is
This is what is happening all the time with gold cases etc, no value is placed on the watch itself , the work that went into it, the dial refinishing etc. but people happily accept and readily pay several hundred percent price mark up on poorly made jewelery

Bobs watch is a classic case a known truly rare/scarce watch selling for a song, the owner could have melted to case for most of the sale value put the movement in a brassed out case and get a good price for the “watch movement and dial” section, they would be falling over each other to bid.

Spectacular watches!!

I am jealous and at the same time glad that folks in our corner of the universe are rescuing these rarities from the scrap heap.

Congrats on another great find Bob!

John III

To see some nice 12 size watches, look at all of the listings this eBay seller has including this one!

http://cgi.ebay.com/HOWARD-SIZE-14-23-JEWEL-ADJUSTED-5-...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem