I have a Hamilton 992, serial number 1198601 (circa 1916-1917, I believe), that I purchased at an estate sale in the early 1980s. It keeps time very well. The front of this watch is shown in the photo. Are the face and hands appropriate to the date of the movement?

The movement is in a 992B military case (U.S. Ordnance Dept), which post dates the movement by many years. If the face and hands are of the same time period as the movement, I would like to put it in a case that is appropriate to its era. If this is so, can someone recommend an appropriate case? Does anyone have one for sale?

Many thanks.

Torrence,
In the time frame your watch was made, the 992 was sold "movement only".

The customer would buy the new movement and select a case of his choice or have the new movement placed in his old case.

The cases in the 1916-17 time frame were of the "long stem" style as seen in the below image.

Beginning in the early 1920's the stem size started getting shorter and by the mid to late 20's the stem is like the one that houses your 992 movement.

p.s. In 1924 Hamilton started factory casing the 992 for the first time, but continued to sell "movement only" for a period of time.

Robert

Well Lindell, it doesn't appear that anyone has a period-correct case for sale for my 992 movement. Any other suggestions?

Many thanks,
Torrence

Perhaps a word about patience is appropriate here.

I find that I often have to do a lot of research.... and searching, to find just the right case or dial, for a particular watch.

So much so.... that I now buy interesting or desireable dials and cases whenever I see them and just put them away.

Dials and cases are "out there," but most of us have learned that the nice ones are fairly rare anc coveted... with or without a movement.

That's why folks aren't standing in line to sell you cases, Torrence!

But... here's the good news...

1. The cases ARE out there and you WILL find them. Their discovery will be much more enjoyable because of the difficulty.

2. You will learn a lot and find a lot of other good stuff during your search. I went to Los Angeles last week to find a 24J, open-face, Bunn Special and failed.... but came home with a terrific model of the same in Hunter Case. Searching...even unsuccessfully, has it's advantages!

3. When you have discovered and put away a few treasures, you will also find that you can trade for things you really want. Everyone is looking for something. Find something rare and interesting and folks WILL stand in line to trade!

And.... if all this is driving you nuts...join the crowd!

On 2nd thought... to illustrate and let you have a starting point.

I have carried the same 992 for 3 yrs now. I bought the watch with a very worn, but fully serviceable, yellow-gold filled, #2, Bar-over-crown case. The case has a full circle of brass on it.

I serviced the movement and tweaked it to keep almost perfect time. The dial and hands were good too. I didn't mind the worn case. First, I didn't have to worry about causing further wear. Second, people were very interested in seeing the brass and understanding how gold-filled cases were produced.

Just yesterday, I recased that watch in a nearly new White-gold-filled, #2 case. The case is too nice to carry and I've decided to carry a newer watch in a stainless case.

If you want a serviceable case, for purposes of carry, the old one would be "right" for your movement. And, it is still a serviceable case (new crystal 2 yrs ago). I would not necessarily recommend it for you and I doubt that I'll ever put a collectable watch in it again.

Hi Torrence,

I think the guys are right, the right case is out there but just will take a little looking. I think Peter is right to point out the difference between a "collection case" and a "carry case."

By coincidence my old 992- the one that really hooked me on railroad watches in the first place- was this one I bought about fifteen years ago. It is very close in serial number to yours, and is number 1197161.

The old watchmaker who sold it to me re-cased it in the nice Keystone gold filled case. I recall he said the movement was in a pretty worn silver case when he got it and I've kicked myself lately that I didn't think to ask more about that old case.

As Lindell said, the membership in IHC185 is well worth the cost in its benefit for the wealth of knowledge here and the advantage of our in-house auction/sale board.

Torrence,
It sounds like you are running the watch some. If it hasn't been cleaned and oiled since you aquired it, I would recommend that you have it serviced if you plan to carry it.
Tom Walker

When you mentioned "serviced" I see the term COA (Cleaned, Oiled, Adjusted -I believe) used, how do you oil a movement, meaning which pivots and what oil, Please.

Moses

A proper overhaul involves taking the watch down to all moving parts, about 50 pieces. Cleaning the watch in a mechanical or ultasonic cleaner with a watch cleaning solution, followed by three rinses. The parts are dried, and inspected. Damaged parts are repaired or replaced. The watch is reassembled and oiled properly. The watch is then adjusted appropriate to the grade. Finally the watch is tested for several days including running the watch in several positons.

It is not simple matter to describe the oil process in a few words. We have several oils for different parts of the watch and for different movement sizes and vintages. To oil the pivots we use needle size oilers that we dip in the oil and touch to the pivot. This leaves a small ring of oil around the pivot. If too much oil is used, it spills out of the jewel leaving an oil track that the rest of the oil will follow. Soon the oil has migrated away from the pivot. Some jewels are cap and hole jewel combinations. Here the jewels are separated during the cleaning process and then the hole jewel is returned and a small spot of oil put on the cap jewel, which is then returned. A special oil is used on the inpulse face of the exit lever jewel. Clock oil is used for pivots in the winding and setting mechanisms including the barrel. A special grease or clock oil is used on the mainspring. Finally another non-migrating grease is used on all levers that rub against each other.

I recommend you obtain a copy of a good watchmaking book like Fried's "Watch Repairer's Manual."

Don

Thanks for the rundown, Don.

That's about what I've been taught to do. The only exception is that I've never heard of using a different oil on the exit pallet stone. That's a new one for me.

We use Mobius (sp??) synthetic oil and I've never heard of using anything different on either of the pallet stones.

Can you tell us what you use for that jewel and why?

Wow -- what great advice, and a teriffic response -- I really appreciate it.

I carry the watch several days a month, so I'd want a nice case that is period-correct. I would be happy to trade in the existing case. I have someone who will re-case the movement for me.

I've had the movement cleaned and oiled three times since I acquired it. Last service was about 3 years ago.

I appreciate the need for patience on this quest. I will be leaving the country for an extended period shortly, and I will give the watch to my father as a gift, for him to carry. He got me into collecting in the first place. He lives in Florida, and he will check my e-mail daily. Can I transfer my Chapter 185 registration to his name and location? I'm sure he'll want to invest in Chapter 185 and NAWCC membership, and I bet he'll have a great time (pardon the pun) completing this quest.

Thanks again,
Torrence

Torrance:

How often are you cleaning your watch?

In my opinion, a properly serviced movement should go at least 5 yrs in normal service. If it is a collector watch, and not used, it should go much, much longer. Our oils are much better these days and they will not dry-out as did the natural oils in the past.

In service, the time-period will depend on the local climate and how often the watch is opened up. I live in Arizona, which is low on humidity and high in dust! Still, I would expect at least 5 yrs between service. A well-serviced movement should come back to you at factory specs. In a 992, that means that it should be consistent in 5 positions. The regulator should be centered.

In my opinion, it is permissible to bump the regulator up a bit if you find that it's losing a little time in actual service. That will happen, if it changes position often and the beat is less than 100% perfect. It is also permissible to continue to bump the regulator a bit between service. Collectors like to see the regulator centered but... for carry... let's use it!

I would service a carry-watch, when it needed service.... not too soon and not too late.

Sadly, servicing a watch DOES cause cosmetic wear, no matter how carefully it is done. Running a watch...especially a dirty one, causes wear as well. So, it's a delicate decision.

Hamilton recommended that a pocket watch be cleaned every 18 months. It is true that modern synthetic oils are good for about 7 to 9 years and thus have lengthened this time. The problem is that vintage pocket watches are not water tight and thus not dust tight. You can see a substantial amount of dirt and dust in a watch atfer just a few months of daily wear. I clean my carry watch about every three years. That is about the time I notice a loss in action. Watches that I only wear a few times a year and are stored in a glass dome or safe are good to go for much longer.

Yes, you do have to adjust the regulator from time to time. The main reason is changes in temperature. During the winter, my carry watch (21J Sangamo) is seldom off more than 5 seconds a month. Come spring and it will fluctuate a bit fast and then slow as the Northeastern weather fluctuates. Come summer and it is time to alter the regulator a bit. The following November, I shall be turning the regulator back.

Railroad men were not allowed to set or adjust their own watches. They did have to take their watch into the inspector twice a month to be checked and rate adjusted. Of course, they worked in an extremely hostile environment. Continuous exposure to coal dust and smoke are really hard on a watch.

Don