How many pendant set Hamilton 992's were made? I did not know any were made. I was going through the Hamilton 1919 catalog and was reading the description on the 992 and it says and I quote "Lever or Pendant set, 16-size, open face, nickel, 3/4-plate movement, 21 extra fine jewels in gold settings,".
Was a pendant set 992 RR grade and approved?

Harry, the pendant-set 992 was not RR grade. Regards, Brad

Thank you Brad. I hope someone post how many were made. I didn't know they made any.

Roy Ehrhardt's book; "Production figures with Grade and serial numbers . . . Hamilton Watch Co." shows a few over 6,000 of the Railroad Grade 992 Pendant setting types.

Thank you Dave. They must be pretty rare as I never see them for sale but I probably was not paying attention as I assumed they were all lever set.
You learn all kind of good stuff here.

I know the pendant set 992 was not American RRG but would it have been in Canada? I always assumed that but never knew for sure.

Hi Deacon,

I don't know what the Canadian RRG requirements were. They must have had some market in mind when they made the pendant set watches.

Anyone interested I am about to post a 992P for sale on the Bay with no reserve as usual. Just wrote desciption and will pop it up within next few hours.

I think they were using pendant set watches until 1906 / 1908 on a lot of class A RR.in the US and Canada, and after that a lot could have been grandfathered to service.
Bill

It is now listed if any interest along with some very nice cases on some average watches if anyone looking for nice cases.

Thanks Rob I'll take a look.

I agree with David's post of Ehrhardt book. I consider the 992 P as a Railroad Grade watch. It's just like any other 992 RRG except it's pendent set and wasn't approved by most rail systems.

To me the term RRG is different than RR approved.

If you look on page 24 of the "Complete Guide to Watch" it give a list of RR approved watches for 1930 for the Santa Fe Railway system. As you read the text it states: "The following list makes and grades meet the requirements and comprise a complete list of watches acceptable" (992 is listed). So it makes the grade but wasn't approved since it's pendent set IMO.

I know it seems to be a play on words......

I wonder if it wasn't after all RR approved since there is a locking device for the pendant so that you have to open the back and use a screwdriver to be able to set the time. The same feature can be seen on some 974's. I don't have a picture to show what I mean, but if you look at Robert's listing, you will see the screw that operates the locking device just next to a plate screw on the main spring barrel plate.

Regards, Krister.

I don't think those work that way. I know of three variants of that system and I have all three variants in a 972, 974, and 975. On at least two variants the screw just holds the lever in place. You do not have to loosen it to pull the crown up and set the time.

The only purpose I can see in that screw is to loosen the lever so that the movement can be removed from the case.

At least that is how two of mine work. The third on has the screw but has a locking screw beside it. Mine i not in a case and does not work so I have not messed with it to see how it works but I assume it works the same.

It works like this on both my 974 and 975:
In the locked position you can wind the watch as usual and if you pull the crown to the set position it still winds and you can take the movement out.
In the unlocked position it works just like any other pendant wind/set watch. I suspect that that screw was in the unlocked position most of the time, but the possibility to lock it for RR use was there.

Regards, Krister.

Very Interesting I have a factory case and if you lock it down you can push down until it clicks and wind the watch. If you pull up on the crown until it clicks you can set it. If you unlock it and push down until it clicks you cans wind the watch. In the unlocked position if you pull up on the crown the winding stem comes completely out. I don't think it is suppose to come completely out unless you want to remove the movement from the watch. I could be wrong and I usually am OR maybe there are more variants out there than we believe.

Many Watchmakers designed mechanical "helpers" that allowed the watchmaker to "let down" pendant set watches more carefully by disabling or locking out the "set" function so you did not need three hands to "let down" a mainspring with a bench key on a watch movement being diassembled for service. I have always thought of this screw in the Hamilton as a "Letdown" screw.

That said, the Letdown screw that "locks" the Hamilton Pendant set movement into wind only could be used to "lock out" accidental time set errors.

Harry. Any number of things could have happened to a watch that is a hundred years or so old. If the stem comes out, there must be something missing or it's worn out. As I see it, this feature should only be activated with the crown in the wind position because it blocks the movement of the spring loaded pin in the pendant sleeve. At the same time it shifts the sleeve to the wind position. Ergo, you can't move the hands.
Dave. I'm not sure I follow you regarding the main spring let down. You still have the click to hold in order to release the barrel, but if it works that way, it's a bonus.

Regards, Krister.

I am trying my best to understand but I just can't figure out why you would have to carry a very small screwdriver around with you every time you needed to set the time?

You have to open the back and take the very small screwdriver and unlock the lever, set the time, screw the small screw back in to lock the lever, and then screw the back back on.

Another thing I don't understand is why? Hamilton only did this to my knowledge on the pendant set models. They were making other models of the same model with lever set. I thought the hole idea of the pendant set was to be more convenient. With a pendant set all you need to do is lift up on the crown to set the time. As compared to the lever set which you have to gain access to the lever, pull the lever out, set the time and push the lever back in and put the bezel back over it.

So I don't understand why if they are making both pendant set and lever set during the same year why anyone would buy a pendant set if you have to go through all the trouble to set it and keep a screwdriver with you.

I don't know much about how the old RR's use to operate and what procedures they had for maintaining accuracy of their watches and I appreciate the different viewpoints. I am looking at this from the point of view as to what make since to me.

Here is a photo of the three types I have. I have 5 pendant set old style watches of this type and four of the five all work the same way. The one with two screws I have not tried. If you screw the screws on the 4 all the way in locking the pendant lever (for lack of a better word) the all wind the movements. If you pull up on the winding stem they all disengage the winding wheels and engage the setting wheels. If you back the screws out unlocking the pendant lever and you pull up on the winding stem the winding stem comes out.

Here are the photos of the 3 different types I have. Please take a look as we may be talking about two totally different things.

Pictures
#1 is the double screw model I have not tried and is a 972.

#2 is a 976 and works as described above.

#3 is a 974 and works as described above.

Harry I have a974 pw/ps s/n848466 and in the area you are showing in the pic. Mine has 2 screws,one being smaller than the other and blue in color.Both located next to the s/n.The watch winds and sets with the pendant. Regards Roger

Hello Roger,

I have three newer models that all work as your model does with the two screws.

One of the newer models looks just like these except it does not have the screw next to the crown wheel.

The second one is just like yours with the two screws next to the serial number with one screw smaller than the other (and I have not figured out what that screw is for but there is a hook under the plate that rotates as you turn the screw).

The third is just like the second one with two screw holes next to the serial number but the smaller hole does not have a screw. It is almost like Hamilton decided to get rid of the hook under the plate but had plates with two holes drilled in them and used them anyway.

All three of these work with the winding stem held in place by the sleeve in the case. They work simple enough. Push down and wind pull up to set. That is how I would think these older models would work but the need a special winding stem that can be locked into position.

Harry I also have a 972 and it only has one screw. Roger

Roger I'm not sure why Hamilton changed so many times and for what purpose. I also don't know around what serial numbers they made the changes. If it only needs one screw next to the serial number then why add another one? Maybe someone will chime in and tell me.

It is a mystery to me!!

It happens all the time. I think I'm crystal clear, but others just see muddy water. This screw we are discussing is not the one that Harry shows in his pics. That looks like an ordinary detent screw, very common on Swiss watches. The screw I'm talking about is this blue one:

It sits next to the serial number on open face movements and on the opposite side on hunter movements:

From the underside of the barrel plate:

This is what it looks like on it's own:

It also maneuvers this sleeve and the levers:

I hope this clears the picture for you as to what I'm ranting about.

Regards, Krister.

Ohhhhh, that clears things up. Now we are on the same page. I'm sure I got us off track since I know very little about these things.

I have been trying to figure out what those screws were used for. Now I know. I have some with the hole but no screw or hook. Was it made that way or did somebody work on the watch and throw that screw and hook away?

Thank you very much Krister for clearing that up for me.

You're welcome, Harry. This discussion was interesting and now that we talk about the same thing, it could get even better!

Regards, Krister.