Well, I guess we'll find out what it's worth.
If you want to check it out here's the link to my auction:

NORTH-WESTERN AUCTION LINK



I couldn't believe this when I got it in the other day....

Not only a North-Western Special but a Hunter!

Not in the book, only the open face model is listed, this may well be a one of a kind railroad.

The dial is perfect as well from what I can see, and the movement tho missing part of the whip is a brilliant example of this.

(Probably the only example.)



What do you guys think?

Hi Tom,I must of missed something.

Other than cap jewels.

Tom, Northwestern Specials are listed as a Swiss Fake in an earlier issue of the watch guide. I understand the jewel count is exeragerated. I am not an expert but some others may have more experience with the numerous cap jewels on the Swiss Fakes.......Keith

Hi Tom,
Please don't think this is expert, but the Only NorthWestern Special I could find was in my "American Pocket Watches Beginning to End"
It shows on pg 361 A watch as shown, but describes it as follows:
The Northwestern Special - dial.mvmnt marked 21J- adj- The Northwestern Special. Chicago USA.
It lists it as a 18s 7j HN2L-U-"21" with a mvmt shown as EA178 in the same book.
Maybe this helps to identify the watch.
Bill

Looks like the same watch listed in the Shugart Guide under Cheshire...they only list an open face version, the movement looks the same to me...am I missing something? I dont think this is a fake anything, let's hear some more thoughts

Tom,
As I said, I'm no expert, and I must admit yours looks just like the movement in the guide.
I hope it is how it looks, it will be a great find, and as far as the Hunter case, it appears to have been recased as there are extra case marks. It might well be a tremendous find, surely there are some experts here that will come on.
Bill

I recognize the watch as a Cheshire per exactly as stated and described. At first I had suspicions when I read Cheshire's
were numbered 201-89650. Then I lightened the pictured example and saw it was # 100103. Then I only see one discrepancy in that the pictured watch has no regulator spring as yours does. All the jewel positions and screws match up heading the same directions. The one in the book is an open face and yours is a H/C which allows for the different position of the capped barrel.

Now I am going on a limb here but I see a very high price bookwise for these watches. I wonder if that could possibly be a mistake BECAUSE I believe when this watch is taken apart it may be useless jewels and turn out to be nothing more than a standard 7 jewel watch SUCH as NYS, Seth Thomas and Trenton made that were marked 21-23 Jewels but were nothing but large "window-pane" cap jewels that we are able to see.

What we need is an real expert here that knows these particular watches.

[d-1]

Just a very very interesting watch Tom, I hope it turns out to be worth some big $$$$'s !!!

regards,
bb

Tom,
I'm with Buster, it would really be something to see this watch if it is as it seems. I mean the guide states only one known to exist !!! WOW !!!
It is a great looking watch.
Bill

Hi, Tom:

I had one of these movements/dials several years ago--looked exactly like the one you've shown, but it was a 16 size as I remember. I was very intrigued by it because I couldn't find any info on it (it was not featured in the Shugart guide at that time). I also do not recall whether it was open face or hunter case.

Can't offer any more info than that but thought you might be interested.

Barry

Here's what Greg F. had to say about it in 2004:

In my collection is an 18s mvt marked "Northwestern Special, 21 Jewels, Chicago, USA". The link is to a picture of it:
http://members.aol.com/gfrauen9/appleton.jpg

This watch is a fake RR, but it is not Swiss made. It was made, I believe, by Appleton (the successor to Cheshire). However, this is probably a different beast than the subject watch (A 16S Swiss fake being discussed) being as it's not "North West" but "North-Western".

Buster, I too think this is basically a 7 Jewel Cheshire with a bunch of cap jewels. It is USA made, probably assembled in WI as Greg says.

Interesting point about the regulator whip. My belief is that the one in the book is missing it's whip entirely.

Another note this same watch is listed under Cheshire and Appleton and is valued less in mid book under Appleton. If as the book says he bought out the remaining Cheshire inventory and assembled them in WI that's probably where this one came from. However, the book also goes on to say the Appleton watches were marked and without an Appleton marked case (this is a recase) no way to know for sure, not that it would matter.

What's It Worth? That would also be anybody's guess. Who put the figures up in Cooksey's book? My guess is it is because of the rarity and not the watch itself. We may be getting a chance to find out, I'm thinking about lettin 'er roll and see what happens. Just wanted you guys to see it and add your .02, and help us all learn, which is one of the reasons we're all here in the first place.

Keep the thoughts coming!!

We'll See....

Seth Thomas made at least two of these that I'm aware of: the Trainmen's Special and the Sentinel, pictured here. Both are 7-jewel Model 12 watches with a lotta glass cap jewels and an unnecessary micro-regulator on an unadjusted hairspring.

Eric;

What I don't understand is why the book values that Cheshire so highly, and these Seth Thomas' for little or nothing? Where did they get that price?
At any rate, we'll see what it's worth now I guess...

Also, I went back 3 years in the book to 2008, and it isn't even listed!
In 2009, it is listed as 3500-6500-10000
In 2010, the values changed to 3500-7500-10000
(under Cheshire)

So this is something that has just been added in the last couple years? I would be curious as to what Cooksey or Tom E. has to say about it.

Tom, my Sentinel isn't listed in Shugart. The Trainmen's Special is, and the last one on eBay brought a cool $250. I'm not sure a Cheshire would bring thousands.

I was watchin'.

I see pretty junky watches falsely advertised and sold on Ebay all the time,and often wonder what the new owner actually thinks when he has his new "treasure" in his hands. I once knew of a "gold" watch that was given to a friend for many years of service. He didn't find out until he tried to sell it that it was gold plated junk. I am of the mind that this Cheshire is a cap jeweled low grade watch,somewhat like the mentioned "Trainmans Special". The Cheshire movement looks to be cheaply made,to me anyway,and that sure seems like a lot of money for basicly just a movement,considering the case is worth what about $75. But,I will watch to see if anyone bites on it for that price. If it actually sells,it won't be the first time I was surprised.

I believe the watch will sell for very good money because of the book and its rarity also.

regards,
bb

Cecil;

I see your point, but to put it in perspective
more than once I saw a cheap no jeweled Ingersoll
Mickey Mouse sell for over 1000. That's a one dollar watch with no real value. Same with a Babe Ruth ww with a paper dial. another one dollar watch that goes for over five hundred dollars.

Point is, it's not the jewel count or the quality they're bidding on...It's the rarity and book price.
The watch itself is what it is

My 2 cents worth. Somedays it will not by a 3 cent piece of gum.

It is what it is.

It will mostly go high. Because of the dial and Rarity. I'd guess if on the open auction market $250 - $500

If you don't like it don't bid. If you do then Bid High. Because there is a collector for anything in the world. You just have to find him. Including these watches.

Good Luck with your auction. Happy Watch Hunting

Best Regards: Gene Buffard

Hey Tom, I understand your point,but to me personally,I would much rather have a nice Hamilton 950E,and the change. That Cheshire isn't something that I would be proud to own and display. If it were a "21 jewel" Swiss fake,and the only one know to man,it would be the same to me. I sure hope this isn't being sold by one of the IHC185 members. Wouldn't want to offend anyone. Just my opinion,for what little it is worth. If I thought about it a little,I'm pretty proud of my collection of rare NYS watches,and most folks wouldn't give a hoot for them.

I would go with have to go with Cecil, I would pass on it because it is what it is. On the topic of might be only one out there, I have two that fall into that category, I have a pendant set Elgin grade 370, if you know Elgins there is no reason to research it and it isn't a franken-watch, bought it on ebay for $150. Second I have a lever set full plate Elgin 21 jewel that is a lever set, not a converted lever set, that falls into the serial number range of a grade 150 and isn't a franken-watch either. I would spend the money for a SB Polaris, or one of The Studebaker, to a nice 16s Lord Elgin or 350 Veritas or two. There are many one-offs but there are watches that are types that will always hold their value, it could be a 950B, 350, 351, Polaris etc.

Cecil;

It's my watch, I'm selling it for a customer, but you didn't offend me. To each his own.

Somewhere in this world, there is a buyer, or as I was once told, "an a** for every seat.

I didn't post the auction link to debate whether it was or was not anything of value, although your opinions are certainly welcome. I was just putting the link up is all.

I may post a THE Studebaker in the for sale column in the coming weeks if you're interested. Stay tuned!

Hey Tom, I watch a lot of auctions,just to see the outcome,and this is one of the more interesting ones and of corse I hope it sells,regardless of who owns it. Speaking of Studebakers,I sold a really nice 59 Lark 2 dr hardtop about a year ago. V8 with three on the tree. Only Studebaker I have now is a nearly mint 18 size "The Studebaker" model 329 pocket watch. I'll keep an eye out for your's,because I can always use another one to keep this one company.

Tom my comment has nothing to do with the watch other than the price and the current market. It will be interesting to see if it pulls one bid since currently when I look on ebay I see nice wind indicators that should be booking 2K-2.5K and are lucky if they pull 700-1K, 19j, 23j it doesn't seem to matter and WI watches are not all that plentiful. Currently unless I am reading the sale of watches on Ebay it appears watch collectors have "hunkered" down and are being a lot less speculative than they were 3-4 years ago. It all depends since on two watches that I sold recently, a nice Elgin 361 sold for mid-book, a nice Elgin 506WI sold close to low book. I will keep an eye on it also just to see what happens.

Well, Somebody is gonna buy it.

As a side note. I love the way your auctions look. Very Professional.

Thank you, Eugene...Much appreciated!

Very interesting watch and discussion,

The dial looks exactly like, but in better condition than, the one in the guide. If you look closely at the picture in the guide the dial looks damaged around the one o'clock numeral. There are two sets of case screw marks however, consistent with what is described in the guide, it is a double hinged back with a coin edge. The movement looks to be in good shape.

That regulator spring doesn't appear correct. I've found a few pictures and an illustration of a Cheshire 3rd model watch and none have a regulator spring. Notice how long the regulator is. Also, the bottom portion of the broken regulator spring seems to be hitting the regulator almost like it's used as a stop. Could be the picture. This issue is not a big deal and should be fairly easy to fix if it is actually incorrect, which I'm not sure of.

I think it's a cool watch. A two-tone movement, North-Western logo on the movement and dial, and flashy useless jewels is unique. If two or four extra jewels are considered a smokestack, this watch is a smokehouse.

Now for the value? The North-Western is a truly rare and noteworthy collectable American timepiece. I have no idea what it's worth but think Tom is offering it for a great price if the guide book is correct. It's interesting that it's unclear if the watch was made by Cheshire or Appleton. The auction has a bidder so the watch is worth at least the opening bid. Maybe others are waiting to the last minute.

Good luck Tom,

RR

Thanks, Richard!

If what you read on this unique watch is true, it would almost certainly have to have been assembled in Appleton, WI. This was made some 10 years or so after Cheshire closed the doors.

I noticed that regulator as well. The one in book doesn't have one, wish the book image was clearer. My watchmaker tells me a Waltham regulator will fit perfectly on this, but i decided to sell it just as it came in, as Richard says this is a minor point anyway. Hopefully this will have an interesting ending, or the lone bidder will get a great deal on it.

ENDS TONIGHT ABOUT 930 EASTERN TIME