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Question- P.S. Bartlett two tone openface "Click" to Login or Register 
posted October 30, 2016 21:49
I recently looked at a nice 18 size open face CDN
dial P.S.Bartlett 17 jewel adjusted to 5 positions? PW
It is in a very nice Fortune swing out case also.
The serial # is 16059961 and the Pocket
Watch Database says it is:
Grade - A.T. & Co
Model - 1892
circa - 1907
Adjusted - 5 Positions
Please bear with me, from the more experienced my QUESTION is..from the above information is that what the watch is?
Any information appreciated
Regards
Rick
 
Posts: 535 | Location: Innisfil in Ontario, Canada | Registered: November 04, 2014
IHC Member 1541
Picture of Lorne Wasylishen
posted October 31, 2016 10:27
From the Waltham PW ID & Price Guide 1976 Roy Ehrhardt:

16059501 - 60000 18s, Mdl 92, A.T.&C0. 17j, OF, Material P
 
Posts: 2093 | Location: British Columbia in Canada | Registered: March 02, 2011
posted October 31, 2016 10:56
Thanks Lorne, I think what threw me off was the adj to 5 positions. I just found an old post indicating 5 positions puts it in a Premiere category. I'm going to take a look at it again today
The vendor cannot be reached for a week and had no indication of sale price on the watch.
Regards
Rick
 
Posts: 535 | Location: Innisfil in Ontario, Canada | Registered: November 04, 2014
IHC Member 1541
Picture of Lorne Wasylishen
posted October 31, 2016 11:08
Waltham used 3 material designations U, A and P.

Some assume they mean Unadjusted, Adjusted and Adjusted to Position(s) but I have been told it is just the quality of the parts used in the watch, P being the highest quality.

What I take from that is you could have a watch that contains P quality parts but it may not necessarily be adjusted to positions.

What is the case serial number?
 
Posts: 2093 | Location: British Columbia in Canada | Registered: March 02, 2011
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted October 31, 2016 11:33
A Fortune case is a Canadian brand case and they did allow 17 Jewel watches if fully adjusted and certified. Does the watch have a 24 hour dial? A watch made in 1907 by Waltham may be suspect as far "5 adjustment" markings are concerned, but the "P" (Premium) does represent the best quality fit and finish. "5 Pos." Adjustment markings were sometimes added by a watchmaker trying to increase the presumed value of a watch, so they should also be validated. I had a Bartlett close to your serial number that would fit all your description except the "5 adj" thing.

 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
posted October 31, 2016 11:38
Fortune, swing out case S# 100127. Nothing to indicate Premiere brand on the movement, just "adjusted" and then "5 positions" on the plate on the outside of the ratchet wheels.

 
Posts: 535 | Location: Innisfil in Ontario, Canada | Registered: November 04, 2014
IHC Member 1541
Picture of Lorne Wasylishen
posted October 31, 2016 11:50
It bugs me that it does not say Appleton Tracey on the movement.

If I read Dave's serial number correctly the same book I used shows his watch as:

16060301 - 2300 18 92 PSB 17j A

Looking at a few pages in that book PS Bartlett seems to have only "A" material

I have to go out for a while, are you able to check if the serial # on other parts match?
 
Posts: 2093 | Location: British Columbia in Canada | Registered: March 02, 2011
posted October 31, 2016 12:27
Hi Lorne, not able to check other serial #s on the watch. I will be at the shop later today to have another look though.

David, the dial is a a 24 hour dial, double sunk.
This watch movement is like one on a previous posting that Bila purchased a couple of years ago save for the 5 adjustments.

Rick

 
Posts: 535 | Location: Innisfil in Ontario, Canada | Registered: November 04, 2014
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted October 31, 2016 16:13
That looks to be correctly marked and is Factory adj. 5 Pos. just like the CPR 1892 (one of my flagship pieces) that passed through my collection. Your watch looks like a Bona-Fide Canadian RR grade model 1892 Waltham pocket watch.

 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
posted October 31, 2016 17:57
David, thank you, although I am still a little wary with the P.S. Bartlett signature on the barrel plate. I thought since the serial number in the Data Base look up indicates this is an A.T.& Co. grade, Model 1892 the A.T. & Co. would be on the barrel plate. I don't know what to think of this watch! Too bad because it is in pretty good condition overall.

I did have another look at the watch movement and the Damaskeen design on the plate with the serial # on it seems to be slightly different from that on the barrel plate.

Regards
Rick
 
Posts: 535 | Location: Innisfil in Ontario, Canada | Registered: November 04, 2014
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted November 01, 2016 11:21
Good point. It would be nice to see if the serial numbers match to the balance cock and balance wheel . . .
 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
posted November 01, 2016 14:34
I just might take the watch in to check the serial numbers if the vendor is agreeable and put this matter to rest. I like the watch but I'm not sure it's right and it's making me crazy. Perhaps I will know in a couple of weeks.

Regards
Rick
 
Posts: 535 | Location: Innisfil in Ontario, Canada | Registered: November 04, 2014
IHC Member 1110
posted November 02, 2016 20:53
As far as I know, P.S. Bartlett's were ALWAYS only temperature adjusted, have never heard of one marked like that, that plate with "5 positions" on it may have come off an 845 or Crescent St. Bartlett's were never RR grade, but were nice watches just the same.
 
Posts: 1323 | Location: Lebanon, Connecticut USA | Registered: March 28, 2008
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