Just acquired this Illinois "Texan" 16s. L/S 21jewels double roller, adj.temp and pos. s/n3122914, red lettering. Can't find it in the book. Any help is appreciated as always. Regards Roger

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Roger, The "Gold Book" pp 411 provides the following info: The Texan, Illinois Watch Co. 16s-21J-ON9L-ATP-"706" Ca 1918

Hi Roger,
According to the Blue Book, and I hope I am reading this right as follows,
LS Mdl 9 Grade 706, from a run of 100 Temp, Iso, and 3 or 4 pos.
The book does not mention red lettering, but talks about black lettering. Likely only 1340 made. States no examples of the 21j seen, but could be marked adj, temp and positions, likely produced after Hamilton took over, and no mention of the "Texan"
Bill

Thank Bob and Bill are the "Gold Book and the Blue Book Illinois reference books?I don't think it was made after Hamilton took over in 1927 as myShugart price guide lists the s/n to 1917/1918.Alittle confusing it is. Where can I find a good Illinois book? Regards Roger

Roger,Both of the books mentioned are reference books and both written by William 'Bill" Meggers and Roy Ehrhardt. Volume 2 "American Pocket Watches- Illinois Watch Co" what we refer to as the Blue book is acknowledged as the most definitive work on Illinois watches. Right now a reprint of this book is available from IHC Member Bill Selover "partimeart" on eBay. A CD is also available from him.

The other book (Gold) is "American Pocket Watches Identification and Price Guide-Beginning to End 1830-1990". This covers all American watches from American Waltham to Hayden Wheeler. Not sure where you could find a copy of this one. Both are invaluable for watch collectors.

Thanks for the info.will see if I can locate one.Roger

Roger all the info you have recvd is right on! I would add that the "Texan" which is dear to the hearts of us Texan's is a private label watch.

It is interesting to note that when the "blue book" was assembled that no 21J examples had been seen by the authors but were acknowledged as being produced.

A real nice piece Roger. It deserves a better dial that shouldn't be too hard to pick up. I have seen a handful of the 17J versions and they all had the Illinois signed dials, never saw a "Texan" signed dial. That could allow for the red lettering also since none had been seen. It is possible that it was added later so look with strong light and as high power a loupe as you have for any traces of black lettering that might be down in the lettering recesses and would clue you as to whether the red lettering may have been added at a later time especially if most of the black lettering may have washed out with multiple cleanings over the years..

regards,
bb

Roger

In the Illinois book it states they were made with both black or red lettering. It also shows this one from a run of 100 in 1917. The database shows there were only 5 runs of this, one in 1913 & the other four in 1917 for a total of only 340 made.

Tom

Thanks Buster and Tom,great info.Buster,I looked at it with the stongest loupe I have under good lighting and can not see any black residue,so I believe it is the original lettering.Looking at the case{which is terrible}a Philidelphia case the jeweler marks inside make it appear the last service was in 1955.Appears to be the original case to the movt.Tom,do I understand you right that only 340 of these were produced?Roger

That is what Meggers reported & like I said either red or black lettering.

They show these runs for 16s 21J model 9 lever set open face grade 706
2541371-2541380 (1913 ten made)
3108801-3109000 (1917 200 made)
3119861-3119870 (1917 ten made)
3122901-3123000 (1917 100 made)
3184811-3184830 (1917 20 made)

Tom