I bought this watch because it was in pretty good condition, and it was cheap. Does anyone have any information on these thin models? They were the same as the Illini grade. Is this a gr 438? Jerry? Also, were these produced in large numbers? Anything else you could tell me about these would be greatly appreciated.

Larry

Dial

I consider these quite desirable, and yours is a nice example. Your 19-jewel model is the grade 437. These 12-size Extra-Thin, 1st-model movements are high-grade and came factory-cased, mostly in solid gold. I have seen this case and dial combination on several of these (gold-filled, I believe?). The grade 438 has the same finish, but has 21 jewels. The grade 439 also has 21 jewels but is marked EXTRA and has a damasceened finish like the Illini. Supposedly there is also a grade 435 (17 jewels) but I have not seen one. I have revised the production numbers (as listed by Meggers) and these should be in the new database. I will check my data this evening.

What has fascinated and frustrated me about these first-model extra-thin watches is that I have yet to find any period advertising or catalog pages (other than watch material) for them. They often are in 14K or 18K enamel-trimmed cases, also commonly with no name on the dial. They appear to have been superceded rather quickly by the Illini (13-size and 2nd model extra-thin 12-size) and the extra-thin third model watches (Marquis Autocrat and A.Lincoln). I would love to figure out how and to whom these 1st models were marketed.

[The thin-model "Illini" has 21 jewels and has the distinctive 5-tooth click designed by Charles Delong.]

-- also, you can see a picture of a gr.439 posted in our photo gallery
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=3206049661&...6047761&m=7966020003

Thanks Jerry. Yes, this is in a 14k filled Wadsworth case. It appears all original.

Larry

IHC Member 25
IHC Life Member (L6)

Jerry,

Is this one of the "Thin Models"??


John Pavlik

Yes, this is one of the 12-size, extra-thin, 3rd model watches. As I mentioned, Jim Carroll is doing research on the 3rd model.

17j grade 435 -- 310 (no wonder I haven't seen one)
19j grade 437 -- 2,060
21j grade 438 -- 1,130
21j grade 439 -- 330

Just to let you know, about my knowlege about Illinois Extra thin Watches.

I would like to point out that I come from the United Kingdom and my hands on knowledge of these Watches is very limited.
Its nice to see your name being mentioned on this subject, as every one knows there are lots of guys who over the the years have researched these watches and it would be nice get more Information, especialy about the first run of the of model 3 Aluminum model 525 3869251-3869300. Jerry Treiman sent me a jpeg of the first run a few years ago, has anyboby ever seen or have one in there collection.

Jim Carroll

Jim,

Thanks for your polite way of putting things. Unlike those who I see elsewhere continually brag about how much they pretend to know your comments gave credit to others appreciatively in a most courteous manner. You and your knowledge is most valued in our discussions.

The 12-size watches will be making real headway with collectors in the coming months and years from all I'm seeing. Anyone not collecting 12-size should give them another look. I must admit I still have a lot to learn about them and I'll have some questions for these wonderful little machines.

Please keep up the fine postings, we all like having you here!

Lindell