Can anyone tell me who made these private label 18 size watches please?

Lousy picture!

Here's the second one.

Michael

Your 2nd one sure looks like an Illinois, if you could post the serial numbers for both & also the private label names I am sure we can find more for you.

I am guessing the second one is 1552458, if so it is a 16s 11 jewel lever set hunter model 4 grade 172 Illinois made in 1901

Tom

The first one is serial number 2433489, 15J, and the name is D T Ferguson, Rat Portage, Ont. He was a jeweler.

The second one is serial number 1552450 and the name is Frank H Niehaus, St Louis, MO. I think he was also a jeweler.

Thanks for the Illinois ID Tom, it saves me wading through all the pages of Illinois serial numbers I photocopied from Ehrhardt's II book. I had 3 copies and sold them through ebay to members here I think!

If I was rich I could have kept one!

Michael

The Illinois info is the same, I was just off on the last digit but the year model etc stays the same.

Frank H. Niehaus was a jeweler in St. Louis Mo., he was born January 1868 in Germany. The image is from the 1878 Saint Louis Mo. city directory

Now I have a problem. The Illinois is actually an open face though the serial number indicates hunter cased as you said Tom.

The first one (Ferguson) has a red third hand that moves in unison with the normal hour hand, one hour ahead of it.

For you folks who have access to such information, I have three old Hamilton private labels, as follows; Grade 924 (s/n 570496) E E ORRS Special,
Oak Lake Man. Grade 929 (s/n 87106) B F WINTERSTEEN, Akron, Iowa Grade975 (s/n 71176) W J ROBERTS Ishpeming, Mich I'd appreciate any biographical info you might be able to supply. Thanks!

Rat Portage originally a fur trading outpost of the Hudson's Bay Company in 1861, was renamed Kenora in 1906, which combined the first two letters of the following (Ke-ewatin, no-rthern, ra-t portage) it is a city situated on the Lake of the Woods in Northwestern Ontario, and became an important Divisional Point on the Canadian Pacific Railways mainline, and the first Canadian ocean to ocean train passed through the community in 1886.

Charles

Benjamin F. Wintersteen was born May of 1855 in Pennsylvania & in the 1900 & 1910 census lived in Akron Iowa & was listed as a jeweler. His wife was Hattie R. born May of 1866 & they had a daughter Ethel born August 1895

History of Plymouth County, Iowa Indianapolis, Ind.: B. F. Bowen, 1917

Benjamin Franklin Wintersteen, a well-known jeweler and merchant of Akron, this county, former postmaster of that place and for years one of the most progressive business men there, is a native of the great Keystone state, but has been a resident of Iowa the greater part of the time since he was a boy and a resident of Akron, engaged in business there continuously since the year 1887. He was born at Pottsville, Pennsylvania, May 24, 1855, son of Peter K. and Hattie (Reeser) Wintersteen, who years ago became residents of Iowa and both of whom are now deceased.

Peter K. Wintersteen was reared in Pennsylvania and there learned the jeweler's trade, which he followed at Pottsville until he came West, locating at Fulton, Iowa, where he was living when the Civil War broke out. He enlisted for service in the Union army during that struggle between the states, but was rejected on account of physical disability. Some time later he moved with his family to Muscatine, this state, where for a time he was engaged in working at the shoemaker's trade, a trade he had learned as a boy, and while thus engaged his health gave way, compelling his retirement to a farm in Jasper county, where he farmed for about fourteen years, at the end of which time he moved to Colfax and was there engaged as a watchmaker for twenty years, or until 1900, when he sold his interests there and retired from business, he and his wife thereafter making their home with their son, the subject of this sketch, at Akron, In 1903 Peter K. Wintersteen went to Chicago to undergo a surgical operation and there died, being then at the age of sixty-four years. His widow survived for about four years, her death occurring in 1907, she then being sixty-five years of age. She was a kinswoman of John Quincy Adams, her mother and the former President of the United Sates having been first cousins. Peter K. Wintersteen and wife were the parents of three sons, the subject of this sketch having two brothers, James Wintersteen, a farmer, living in the vicinity of Nevada, Missouri, and Harry Wintersteen, a blacksmith and wagon maker at Portland, Oregon.

Benjamin F. Wintersteen was but a child when his parents moved from Pennsylvania to Iowa and he received his elementary schooling at Muscatine. He was about fifteen years of age when his father moved on to the farm in Jasper county and about a year later, when sixteen years old, he went West and for about six years thereafter spent his time in the mountains, in Colorado, Arizona, Dakota and New Mexico and for some time was engaged on a horse ranch in Arizona. Upon his return to Iowa Mr. Wintersteen became connected with his father in the jewelry business at Colfax and was thus engaged at that place for five years, or until the fall of 1887, when he located at Akron and there opened a jewelry store, a business in which he has been engaged continuously ever since. Upon starting in business Mr. Wintersteen rented a small store room, but as his business prospered he presently expanded the same, bought out a stock of wall-paper and stationery and moved into a larger building. He later still further enlarged his quarters and added a stock of paints, chinaware, cut-glass, silverware and the like and long has had one of the best-equipped stores in his line in this part of the state. Mr. Wintersteen is a Democrat and during the administration of President Cleveland was appointed postmaster of Akron, serving in that important capacity for a period of four years and six months. He also has served as a member of the Akron school board and in other ways has contributed of his time and his energies to the public service.
In March, 1895, Benjamin F. Wintersteen was united in marriage to Hattie Round, who was born in Wisconsin, daughter of the Reverend Round and wife, the former of whom is a minister of the Baptist church, and to this union two daughters have been born, Ethel, who was graduated from the Akron high school in 1914, attended normal school in South Dakota and is now engaged in teaching in that state, and Grace, who is a student in the Akron high school. The Wintersteens are members of the Baptist church and take proper interest in the various beneficences of the same, as well as in the general social activities of their home town. Mr. Wintersteen is a Royal Arch and Scottish Rite Mason and, together with is wife and elder daughter, is a member of the local chapter of the Order of the Eastern Star, which he helped to organize and in which both Mrs. Wintersteen and Miss Ethel Wintersteen are office bearers.

Tom

Journal of the executive proceedings of the Senate ..., Volume 29, Part 1 By United States. Congress. Senate

William J. Roberts

1920 census Ishpeming Michigan
Born about 1877 in England, married to Mable M., daughter Loretta P. & son William. WJ listed as jeweler

1930 census Ishpeming Michigan
living with wife Mable, listed as jeweler

Image is from the 1899 city directory for Ishpeming, Marquette, Michigan

Hi Michael

The Illinois (second) watch is for sure a hunter movement. If she is in an open face case it is in a 'sidewinder' configuration - stem at 3 o'clock.
The case shows screw marks of reuse too.

The 'double hour' hands on the first watch were used on railway watches on railway lines operating on two or more time zones. I think they could be used on custom watches for people living near time zone borders also.

Regards
Gerald

Hello Michael:

Your private label, D.T. Ferguson looks Swiss made probably an Omega. I have two Hamilton Private labels from W. A. Ferguson from Kenora. I wonder if they were related.

Larry

Michael

The only info I have been able to find on D.T. Ferguson was he was apparently a Mason there in Rat Portage.

Tom

Many thanks to everyone for your help.

I know much time and effort must have gone into any research.

Michael

Gerald, the Illinois is indeed a sidewinder. I just hope it isn't poisonous!

D.T.Ferguson was a jeweler on Main street, Rat Portage in the Victorian era.

He was joined in the business by his son William Ferguson:

WILLIAM FERGUSON

William Ferguson, a jeweler of Rat Portage, was born in Collingwood, Ontario, June 4, 1867, and in both the lineal and collateral lines is of Scotch descent. His parents were John and Elizabeth (Binning) Ferguson, both natives of Scotland. They became early residents of Collingwood, where the father engaged in the milling business until his death. The mother still survives and is yet a resident of Collingwood.

At the usual age William Ferguson entered the public schools of that place and passed through successive grades< until he completed his education in the high school. Throughout his entire business career he has been connected with the jewelry trade, being first employed in that line by C.W. Colman of Toronto, with whom he remained for two years. He afterward worked at the business in different places until 1891, when he came to Rat Portage and for seven years was in the employ of his brother, D. T. Ferguson. At the end of that time he established business on his own account and now carries a fine line of jewelry of all grades in order to meet the general trade. His patronage has constantly grown, as he has put forth earnest effort to
please his patrons, who have recognized also his unfaltering adherence to a high standard of commercial ethics.

In 1900 Mr. William Ferguson was married to Miss May Arnold of Rat Portage, and they have two children: Clarence and Stewart. Mr. Ferguson belongs to the Ancient Order of United Workmen and to the Presbyterian Church, while in politics he is independent, caring nothing for political preferment for himself, as he has desired rather to give undivided attention to the business in which he is making substantial progress.

(From History of Ontario)

In late 1910, within a couple of months of the birth of Robert Arnold Ferguson, William and family moved west to settle in Edmonton, Alberta. William established himself as a jeweler and purveyor of fine gold and diamonds, traveling into the "coal branch" offering his wares as investment to the coal miners of Alberta.

William is often referred to as "William A. Ferguson", however family tradition indicates he was not blessed with a middle name, but rather felt that signing documents as "William Ferguson" only, lacked some panache. As a result he chose to use "A" as his middle initial, a tribute to his loving wife's maiden name, Arnold.

The family moved to a homestead at the outbreak of World War I, William fearing that being located in a major urban area (Edmonton) was unsafe. William became one of the very first "suburbanite commuters", driving, between his shop in Edmonton and his homestead near Veggerville, Alberta. Unfortunately this weekly commute cost him his life, in 1920, in one of Alberta's earliest motorized vehicle accidents. William was survived by his wife, May (nee Arnold) and three sons, Clarence (aka Slim), Stuart (aka Tooie) and Robert.

(Personal knowledge, Robert Stuart Ferguson, Grandson)

Tom, thank you very much for the exhaustive information on Benjamin Franklin Wintersteen and also for the info on William J Roberts. These are neat old watches and knowing something about their history adds a great deal to the enjoyment of watch collecting! Regards, Charlie

Charles

You are welcome, I had a question on the one you listed as E E ORRS Special, is that all that is marked on the dial & movement? Not sure I can find anything just of initials with no town.

Any chance of posting a photo of that one or all three for that matter, but the ORRS Special sounds interesting.

Tom

Tom, the dial simply says E E ORRS SPECIAL OAK LAKE MAN. which I'm assuming means Manitoba. The works is simply marked Hamilton in the usual fashion. The case is marked MIRA , with a small symbol that looks like a flower. it is gold filled, and bears quite a few service markings. the dial is very nice, Canadian style with the hours 13 through marked in small red numbers. The dial did have a small chip out near 8 which was imperfectly repaired. I have been able to slightly improve the repair using the Lindell Riddle method. My photo skills and equipment are not very good at the moment, but when I can I'll post pictures of these interesting watches. Thanks for your continuing interest. Charlie

Thanks Charles.

I am not that up on Canadian railroad terms, I would assume the ORRS might stand for Official Railroad Standard like on the Ball watches.

I would wonder what the EE would mean, I wonder if there was or is a railroad with those initials.

Any of you Canadian collectors out there?

Tom

Tom, I think the man's name is E E Orr, because the dial reads E E ORR'S Special. I'm thinking he was a jeweler in the mighty town of Oak Lake, somewhere in the wilds of Manitoba. On pulling out my Atlas, I find that Oak Lake (pop. 359!)is on the Trans Canada Highway, Route 1, west of Brandon, in the southwestern part of the province. BTW, the watch is not working, needs a staff, and I'm getting ready to send it out to be fixed. Thanks, Charlie

Charles

I believe you are right, I was trying to make the letters into something they weren't.

Found a mention of Mrs. E. E. Orr in regards to being involved in Sunday School there in Oak Lake.

Tom

Hello Charlie:

Oak Lake was situated on the Canadian Pacific Railway's transcontinental mainline. Work crews building the railway reached there in the spring of 1882. They built a station and siding that are now long gone. I too would like to see some pictures of this interesting Hamilton Private label.

Larry

Thanks to both Tom and Larry for your interest in this watch. When I get it back from repair I'll address myself to getting my photo skills up to speed. It is in very good condition, though the dial is not perfect. I like these old veterans which show a "patina of age," so to speak. At 72 I'm showing signs of age myself! Regards to you both, Charlie

No rush Charlie, when ever you can. Patina huh, I am only showing signs of rust, misuse & broken parts.

Take care

Tom

Mike, The Canadian seems a match for an Omega that I have and it came out of Vancover.

Thanks Deacon, it's up to $200 on ebay so I hope everyone's right!

Michael