A new acquaitance of mine (NOT a friend) has a pocketwatch and wants to sell it -- it has no sentemental value to him. He asked me to help because he heard that I collect wristwatches. The dilemma is that the case appears to be a solid 14K case (marked WARRANTED 14K TO ASSAY, but perhaps it is actually filled, WWs are not marked like this). The case weighs around 65 grams. Evidently the movement is listed in Shugart as common and as not having much value. While we ALL likely agree that it would be a crime to scrap this case, why should he take less than scrap value for a nice chunk of gold IF it is solid 14K? Since I know less than nothing about pocketwatches, I am certain that someone here would have a wise suggestion. Please see a link to the images below. (I have not seen it in person, only the photos here.) Thanks in advance for your help.

The info:

1910 P.S. Bartlett/Waltham 14k Watch
Serial # 18003321
(Between Late 1910-1911)
size 16, 17 Jewels Adjusted
Weighs 65 grams.. (or somewhere around that)

IMAGES:
http://img29.imageshack.us/g/1006824h.jpg/

I'm no expert but that sure looks like a solid gold mark.

The movement is pretty attractive too. Unfortunately this looks like it's headed down the unfortunate road so many old watches find themselves on; separation of case and movement, scrapping the case and selling the movement.

Rick,
I'm no expert either but almost the same exact mark is in my price guide on page 35. The only difference is it says U.S. ASSAY instead of TO ASSAY and yes it does indicate solid gold. If the case weighs 65 grams you would have to reduce the weight of the case springs, crystal, stem, and anything else that isn't gold to get it's gold weight. I would try to convince the seller to sell it for the gold price plus the movement value together. Here's a link on gold vs. gold filled. A seller you experts better not mess with...
RR

Well, either that or a collector who wants to house a better movement in a solid gold case. Seems like you might have a better chance of finding someone like that than someone who has a burning desire for a common movement...

Some people may go off the deep end when I say this but I would also just seperate the two and sell the movmement and sell the case, that way for someone who has a high end movment they can house it in a high end case, in the end you would probably get a bit more money out of it. If you sell it complete chances are that the movement will fly out in a hurry for another movement, either way the end result is the same.

Hi Rick;

I would go with Lin's thought...get the scrap buyers price then go from there. Depending on who he is, there is no way he'll pay 100% of scrap...he has to make money too. (So does the place he'll sell to as well)

The most you'll usually garner is about 80% and if he's like most of these places wanting to buy your gold....50 cents on the dollar and sometimes even less!

Do the math and you'll see how much profit all those gold buyers are making...you will not believe it

(Just for laughs I went to our local buyer and that's what it came out to...I had some gold necklaces he said he'd pay me 867.00 for, I eventually sold to a friend of mine who got me $1600.00 for the same load, at about the same spot price...Local Buyer: $15.50 a pennyweight for 14K at the time, my buddy got me $30 a pennyweight...quite a difference!)

From my limited experience in this game the bottom line is how many true pennyweights does it actually weigh, and how much is he willing to pay PER PENNYWEIGHT...that's the bottom line. I would be very surprised if that case is even worth $300 to the scrapper.

So, my opinion is about anyone here could meet or beat the scrap buyers price easily. Give it a shot, and do let us know what you find out.

Rick,
If the person wants to sell it to you, what is his asking price??
I would think that this watch looks to be in excellent+ condition overall.
I do believe a fair and equatable price for buyer/seller on this particular watch should be $700-800. Unfortunately MOST sellers think they have a $1000+ watch, which I don't believe the watch in GRO and with case spring & lids operating correctly will reach that level. As stated a fair price for the both of you would be somewhere between $700 and $800. No one gets hurt and who knows perhaps you will aquire a nice watch and a new friend

I dunno about that, Buster. I was looking at the Ehrhardt/Meggers boys table of watch case values, and a hunter case, 14k solid gold, plain polish finish was valued at $526 in 1987. That value was based on gold at $400 an ounce. Gold bullion is valued today at $1200 per ounce making Gregs case valued at $1575 - as scrap. What am I not allowing for here?
Mike

The Watch will not sell in this market for more than scrap. The stated weight of 65 grams appears high for this style of case and I would bet there are heavy weighted springs. At the closing price on Friday I would pay 31.50 a dwt on the net weight, so someone who wants to buy this to keep and not scrap should be willing to pay $31.50 a dwt or $20.32 a gram once the springs have been taken out. That is very fair to buyer and seller. Geno

By the way when you figure scrap the factors are 56% for 14K and 72% for 18K. Geno

Nobody buys scrap at 585 or 750 or if they do they discount it heavily. Geno

Thanks everyone for your input! I do not want to buy the watch, but I also would hate to see it scrapped. I'll let you know what he decides to do... as long as he lets me know before he does it.

Regards,

Rick-

I would say that the case does not have heavy springs in it and is very heavy in gold content as I have a 16s illinois with the exact same case and the case without the bezel weighs right at 3 ozs. Knowing how mine is constructed, every lid is very thick and the case was made exceptionally heavy for a 16s case.I figure this case would scrap to around $1200.00 or more. unfortunately as everyone is pointing out, the watch value is probably less unless you can find that guy willing to use it as an investment and hope both the watch and gold markets become stronger and not looking for the quick turnaround.

Jared

Until the springs come out, you just don't know what it will weigh net. I have had many cases with lead behind the springs and on 1 notorious 18s it was 37 grams. Geno

There are 2 more clues you can use, if you can flex the covers easily and the watch is heavy, it most likely has weighted springs or lead. When you put it in your hand you can feel a heavy concentration of weight around the perimeter on a weighted case. The range of spring weight can be as little as 4 or 5 grams and up to over 35 grams depending on if there is lead present. Some case companies are notorious for using weighted cases, one of the worst is Bay state. Generally the older a case is the less chance there is for it to be weighted. I just bought a Waltham 1s with weighted springs so it can come in any size of hunter, open face cases do not have this problem of lead. The bottom line is still to be absolutely sure of weight the springs have to be removed. That style of case that you are attemting to buy is the most common style that is weighted and of course not all are. Geno

Of course the very best thing that could happen is to put it for sale right here at 185 with a price to:

"buy it now or best offer"

Too much talk, not enough action.

Thanks all! Again, this is NOT my watch, as I do not collect PWs, and I DO NOT PLAN to offer him a penny for it. It is owned by an acquaintance, and a relative stranger at that -- though he seems to be a decent person. I mostly just do not want to see him taken advantage of, while also trying to encourage him to keep the watch together. My guess is that he will put it on eBay with a .01 opening bid but with a reserve of more than $1000 and see what the market values it for. IF it sells for more than that, I think all will be happy.

THANKS AGAIN for your help!

Regards,