The 21 jewel gr.181 railroad movement looks like it may be a little on the rare side, only built for a few years, and only 6000 made.By Elgin standards, that's a small number.I've only seen a few pics of them, some are marked 'No. 181", seems most are not.They have a really different damaskeen pattern, and a real elaborate "Elgin Nat'l.Watch Co." signature.Was this a higher grade than the 349 ? Anyone ever see any ads for these?I can't find any, they aren't even listed in the price guide books that I have.Roy Ehrhardt listed them in the beginning to end book, but didn't put a very high value on them back then.I wonder if these were'nt a good seller back when they were made,it seems odd that they dropped them after such a short time.What a nice looking watch though!

In studying Elgin materials and catalogs, I have never encountered a published advertisement for the Grade 181.

Elgin Grade 181 was essentially the precursor for Grade 252. The last designated serial number for Grade 181 is 8,500,000, though analysis indicates the last run was likely not completely fulfilled. The first designated serial number for Grade 252 is 8,695,001. According to material catalogs, the primary changes between the two distinctive grades are:

1. The 181 features stop works while the 252 does not.
2. The 181 is fitted with a single roller while the 252 features a double roller.
3. The pallet stones were upgraded from garnet to sapphire with the introduction of the 252.
4. The pallet fork was upgraded to a poised design.

I have attached the full part comparison for these two grades.

It is also interesting to note the the base materials for the 181 and 277 (upgraded Grade 150 movements during the same period) are essentially the same.

Thank you for the info! I was hoping to see an ad for these, to see the selling price versus the other RR grades at that time.Must have been an expensive movement. Thanks again, Ted.

Actually there is good evidence that the 181 was the transition from the pendant set 150 to a lever set for RR service. The transition 277 which was a converted pendant set to lever set was a bridge-over grade and you won't see the 277 advertised either. In some ads it was advertised in conjunction with the 149 as a lever set 21j hunter, 21j pendant set and 21j lever set without going into the grades.

Elgin was caught off-guard because they had gone with pendant set and Ball was pushing lever sets even though pendant sets were still allowed for RR service but the writing was on the wall and Elgin had to have a 18s 21j lever set to meet the changing rules for RR service. The 150/277/181/ and 149 were not double rollers, the 149 was upgraded to a double roller in the 10,422,xxx run but the 150/277/181 never made it that far. The 252 probably was a later logical replacement for two reasons, a 21j lever set and a marking or name since railroad rules were starting to require a name or marking that could easily identify the grade of movement. You will see some 150s and 181s that were stamped 150 or 181, if they were sent back into Elgin they would stamp them to meet RR rules, typically any of the ones marked 150 were actually 150s that were converted to lever sets (277s).

The 181 was in the same quality as the 150 but by the time the 349 came out the 3/4 plate 18s Veritas grades were the big dogs and replaced the 150/277/181 as the best 18s grades. You do see some dmk changes of the 181 to better align it with the 150 in terms of looking the same.

There are official 277s. where comments were left on Elgin notes and unofficial 277s. All a 277 is a movement from the 150 serial number that originally was a grade 150 pendant set and was machined to be a lever set by Elgin. Any lever set that falls into the grade 150 serial number array will show a tell-tale sign of a slot in the pillar plate near the 12 area that is a left over remnant from being a pendant set since when it was a pendant set part of the setting mechanism fit into this slot. The earliest 277 was found from run 2 and probably was in inventory and converted but most are run 3 or later. I have a run 3 150 that shows no signs of being a pendant set, the machining is for lever set only and there might be others like it that were probably early trials for the 181.

If you look at the 181 and the 150 and 277 I doubt there is any difference in part numbers with the exception of the setting mechanism.
All should be 21j adjusted to 5 positions, adjustment level 10 is I think how they are noted.

Thanks again Claude.I have one of these coming, it looks like a nice grade to have.Take care, Ted.

You would noticed that the 150/277/181 and 149 hunter would have been the best Elgin had up until the 214 was released along with the 239 and 240. Once the 3/4 18 size grades the 150-277-181 dropped from the top of the Elgin open face 18 size RR watch.

If you like the quality of the grade 150 the 181 will not leave you wanting, it is a great pre-1900 example of the best Elgin had to offer.

Here is the data on the grade 181

7132001 7132001 500 181 1897 181* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
first run of grade 181; 1 of 6000 in grade; 2493 of 7th model in 18s

7132501 7132501 500 None 1897 181* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
2993 of 7th model in 18s;
# elgin Master Records say "E.N.W.Co. on Barrel Bridge 7132501

7457001 7457001 2000 ? 1897 181* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
# mixed names

8186001 8186001 1000 ? 1899 181* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
8326001 8326001 1000 None 1899 181* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
8499001 8499001 1000 None 1899 181* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
last run of grade 181
total watches found: 6000

The later runs of the grade 150

7435001 7435001 1000 ? 1897 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875001 7875001 531 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875541 7875541 269 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875811 7875811 15 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875827 7875827 5 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875833 7875833 14 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875848 7875848 3 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875852 7875852 4 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875858 7875858 1 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875861 7875861 8 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875870 7875870 10 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875881 7875881 5 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875887 7875887 4 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875921 7875921 10 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875939 7875939 17 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875962 7875962 9 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
7875972 7875972 8 ? 1898 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
8490011 8490011 1 ? 1899 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
8490016 8490016 5 ? 1899 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
8490101 8490101 100 ? 1899 150* 18s ofn5p 20-21j A-A5P
# Are these G=277? they are listed in Elgin's Master Records as 277 on the 277 page, but not on the 150 page. On the 277 page, there is also what appears to be a "total" which implies that these aren't 277's.

Converted 150's to 277s

6362334 6362334 1 1895 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
first run of grade 277; 1 of 184 in grade; 1 of 7th model in 18s;
5335 of 21 jewels; 4334 of 21 jewels in 18s

6457740 6457740 1 1895 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
2 of 7th model in 18s; 9741 of 21 jewels

6457876 6457876 1 1895 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
3 of 7th model in 18s; 9877 of 21 jewels

7875532 7875532 9 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
7875810 7875810 1 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
7875826 7875826 1 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
7875832 7875832 1 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
7875847 7875847 1 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
7875851 7875851 1 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
7875856 7875856 2 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
7875859 7875859 2 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
7875869 7875869 1 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
7875880 7875880 1 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
7875886 7875886 1 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
7875891 7875891 30 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
7875931 7875931 8 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
7875956 7875956 6 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
7875971 7875971 1 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
7875980 7875980 21 1898 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
8490001 8490001 10 1899 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
8490012 8490012 4 1899 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
8490021 8490021 80 1899 277* 18s ofn7l 21j Adj
last run of grade 277

First run of grade 214

8400001 8400001 2000 VER 1899 214* 18s o3n8l 23j A-A5P ? jb
first run of grade 214; 1 of 24000 in grade; 1 of 8th model in 18s;
3001 of 23 jewels; 1 of 23 jewels in 18s;
1 of jewelled motor barrel in 18s;
# 1950 MC says all 214 have double roller (this is first run of 214)

Thanks once again Claude!