Is there any approximation on how many Hamilton 950B Gold Train movements were produced? Were they produced in a certain portion of the serial block assigned to the 950B's or do they appear, at random, throughout the entire range?
John.

From the information recorded in our database, 950Bs from S001 through about S4000 seem to have the gold trains, the ones after that use brass trains. Some of the brass train wheels have square wheel spokes, some have rounded spokes, but I am not aware what the S/N breakdown on these might be.

Ed Ueberall
NAWCC #49688
IHC #34
http://members.aol.com/stdwatch/

I know this is probably going to start an argument, and that's not my intention, but it's actually a misconception that any of the above mentioned watches have solid "gold" trains.

Some of them do look like gold, but they're actually just gold filled -- a thin layer of gold applied to brass, which is the principal component.

A few watches that do have solid gold trains include Waltham "American" grades, etc., but those are few and far between. I'm not sure that Hamilton ever produced a watch of any type with true solid gold wheels.

For those inclined to argue -- don't. Get a microscope and a 950 (or 950E or B), and examine the edges of the wheels.

Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas

Thanks Steve, I remember a past discussion on this subject where you brought up the composition of the wheels, it may have been on the center wheels....

I have not sectioned a wheel, but do respect your opinion.

I think at that time we may have mentioned a change of terms to state 'polished wheel' or something like that...

Be they gold or polished composition, I still hold opinion of their useage being mixed in the early 950b movements and the 950E.

Will make an attempt to find a few serial numbers for listing...



BTW,
Is it your opinion that the wheels in Bunn and Sangamo grades share this same composition?

Without getting into the actual compsition of these wheels, it is interesting to note that Hamilton, in their catalog descriptions referred to them as "gold trains".
As far as the serial number breakdown, we have 16 movements listed in our database with serial numbers under S4000 that specified "gold train" and only one (a watch sold on eBay, don't know who the seller was) with a serial number over S4000. Many years ago, when I was in the market to purchase a 950B I looked at quite a number of examples. I wound up with one (with the 'gold train')S/N S3688 and started looking for where the changeover point might be. I have not personally seen any 950B over S/N S4000 with a 'gold train' althought this certainly doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Ed Ueberall
NAWCC #49688
IHC #34
http://members.aol.com/stdwatch/

ed, terry, & all,
none of my 950b's have gold trains, including # 3866 ( the lowest # i have )
all of the watches below serial number 19611 have rounded spokes on the train wheels and are more polished than the later examples with the square spokes. lowest number with square spokes is 23358.
maybe we can narrow it down further if others will take a look see and let us know the spoke design on any 950b's between 19611 & 23358. there is also a change in the demasking on the movement plates that coincides with the spoke design, with the later style demasking having a more even light/dark/light/dark design ( almost like stripes )that are evident when you rotate the movement thru the light.
regards
fred hougham

Everyone,

The lowest number 950B in my collection is S924 and of course it has the polished full gold train. I also have S5258 and it has round spokes on all the comparatively dull train wheels.

There is no other discernable difference between the two movements. They both also have the pocelain "RR track" dials and baton hands we generally associate with early 950B examples.

Sorry, no surprises!

Lindell

My 950B (# S10311) has rounded spokes, but the train is brass. Same with my 952. This makes sense as my 950B is a much later serial number than many examples with gold wheels as given here.

Just out of interest, I checked my 950. It has a gold train, and examination with a 10x loupe indicates to me that the train wheels are solid, not veneered. Was there such a thing as a 950E with a gold train? "The book" doesn't list one and that seems odd to me, considering that some 950s and early 950Bs did have gold trains.

Doug S.

Fred:
The heck with this thread. What kind of Ford is that in your Avatar and who is the good looking blonde behind the wheel?

NICE CAR!!!

Tom Pace
IHC #123
NAWCC #156667

tom,

the car is a 34 ford street rod convertible and the blond is my lab. she likes the car as much as i do since she gets to go to work with me everyday in it.

fred

The car and the "lady friend" are both cool!

Back on the subject of smaller machines, with the original Hamilton 950 I find the highly polished full gold train (GT) as early as 750221 which was evidently the 21st one, and as late as 2505350 which is from the final run ever.

To answer Doug's question about 950 Mainliner Elinvar model. An early one, 2611552 which is the 152nd number as well as 2640299 which is past the mid-point, and 2649747 an example from the final run all have a polished gold center wheel (GCW) only. I've seen no indication the factory produced any 950 Elinvar with the full gold train. However someone wanting to put one together today could pull it off.

Which raised the question in my mind as to exactly which Hamilton 16-size open-faced RR grades were produced with the GT, and I came up with only the 950, the 960 the 994 and of course as we've been discussing some of the early 950B examples.

Am I missing any?

Lindell

Steve M.
I agree with you on the gold wheels.
Brian C.

We're right, Brian.......

Everyone else just doesn't know it yet.


SM

I am still not gonna argue about the composition, and don't happen to have any to section....

Anyone else looked at their 950E?? Post em if u got em....

Three years later ...

950E # 2649227 Gold center wheel only.

950b serial #2B747 All Gold train

950-B ser. no. S-581, all gold train.

950-B ser. no. S-3961, does NOT have gold train.
This may help confirm gold trains were ceased before the S-4000 examples.

OK, just to sum up the 950B gear train cheangeover, the highest S/N we have seen with the gold train is S 3688, and the lowest S/N we have seen with the brass train is S 3866. This leaves us with an "unknown" range of 178 movements. Does anyone have any examples within that range, or any outside the range that goes against what has been reported to date?