I got a really neat watch in today. It is a Private Label Fredonia, Independant or Peoria but I am not sure which. It is a Russell's Standard Anti-Magnetic, Philadelphia, Pa. It is adjusted serial number 14,277. I think it is a PL Fredonia as the regulator adjustment disk has teeth all the way around the disk. Peoria says there movements on have teeth part way around the disk. If the book is correct then that would make this a Fredonia PL. I do not think it is an Independent Watch Co. movement but since they preceded Fredonia I guess it might be. I just don't know enough about these watches I just thought it was neat. It says Anti-Magnetic not Non-Magnetic. I no Peoria made some movements for Non-Magnetic of America. If it is a Peoria The Price guide list low serial number as a one star movement but what does that mean. How low is low.

I don't know how many jewels but I suspect 15. Also some of these were Railroad grade but I don't know how to tell that either.

Thanks,
Harry

Dial

lets compare to a peoria ! Hmmm

Edit : I thought this was to easy , since Fredonia preceded Peoria , and they where thrifty people , it is hard to tell , the only way I know of is Peoria round regulator has teeth only halfway around and a fredonia has them all the way around . If you try to go by serial numbers it makes no sense , they have overlapping numbers . we need a Fredonia/ peoria guy to weigh in

Hi Kevin,

Not so easy is it. When I first saw it I thought it was a Swiss fake but the inscription was awfully good but I passed on it. Then I saw a Fredonia that looked just like it and was marked Fredonia and was going for over $300 and so I got The Price Guide out and looked up Fredonia and it referenced Independent Watch Co. so I looked up Independent and saw a similarity there but while reading up on the Independent Watch Co. I saw a reference to Peoria Watch Co. so I looked up Peoria and saw another movement that looked just like the Fredonia. The Independent Watch company did not list an Anti-Magnetic movement but Fredonia and Peoria did so I figured it was probably one of these. I read that the Fredonia's regulator disk had teeth all the way around the disk (like mine) and the Peoria's disk only went part way around the disk so I am figuring that mine is a Fredonia. I looked at Peoria and it mention low serial numbers but does not say how low the serial number has to be. So you know how things get carried over when they switch from one line to another so I don't know if the low serial number Peoria would possibly have a disk with teeth all the way around not to mention if the two disk have the same teeth spacing and disk size you never know if the disk had been replace in the last 130 years. The fact that the two watch company movements are identical except for the tiny regulator disk and it being a PL I really don't know which one it is. If it is a Fredonia at least the value is a little higher.

There was apparently some "shady" dealings with the serial numbers , my peoria is not that far from your fredonia , there is another thought about the pins under the regulator , peoria has 3 and fredonis has 2 , as ours show {I am fuzzy on this} but if it is right some fredonias were finished in Peoria {?} the long and short is -I think you have a fredonia

Mark Twain was heavily invested in Fredonia , they even had a Mark Twain model , well after the honeymoon was over profits did not meet up to his liking , he made some accusations . I was looking for a letter he had written but found a piece that sums up his opinion of watch "tinkerers" [on open licence ]


http://infomotions.com/sandbox...ite/twain-my-640.pdf

Kevin that is a great Mark Twain story as is usual with Mark Twain.

Ok here is some more things that make you want to scratch your head. My balance cock has 3 pins. Two at the base and one at the other end. Now for the weird part. When I first got the watch I thought the serial number was 14377 on after I looked at the sellers picture was I aware that the serial number was 14277. Well when I pulled the balance cock and read the hand stamped serial number it was 14377. I think it was miss stamped and the guy who stamped it did the same thing I did am thought the serial number read 14377. I refuse to believe that someone just happened to replace the balance cock with all the numbers correct except one number and that one number only one digit off. The demaskeen Pattern on this PL matches to the tee. I believe this to be a mistake made at the factory. What do you think?

After reading other experts frustration on these watches I am inclined to agree . Like I said , they did not throw anything away and where and when the watch was finished is up in the air , by the way , does your your regulator have teeth cut all the way around ?

That "Russels Standard" of yours Harry is probably a Fredonia Watch Co, That Jeweller has a couple more of these floating around, Serial#14355 and #14437 which were both Fredonia's and marked identically going by the info I have seen & read (this info is correct unless more sightings/observations comes to light in the future). I agree about the serial on the balance cock, probably a mis-stamp as you have alluded to.

As for your "Peoria Watch Co", Kevin it is a Peoria, at the start of the 13,001 run they were all marked Peoria (except the P/L, but still Peoria). Not many sightings/observations about half-way thru that serial block, but the info I have seen say that they were Peoria in the latter half of that run as well. They then changed again at the start of the 14,001-14,660 serial blocks to a mixed Fredonia & Peoria batches (this info is correct unless more sightings/observations comes to light in the future).

Thank you Bila and Kevin. Yes Kevin the teeth are cut all the way around.

Thanks Bila , I really did not question it until after I bought it and was comparing it to fredonia's , trying to identify another private label . My dial is marked Peoria , I think I will take them at face value , that is if they say peoria it is one , thanks again

Kevin there is a 18s Ferdonia dial on the bay. Then you could go back and forth like you would have two watches in one. LOL

I don't know if the OF dials have the same foot pattern as the HC models.

Also Bila or anyone else were any of the Fredonia's RRG?

The 15 Jewel Adjusted with micrometer regulator Hunter's were RRG and marketed as such. Some that were sold (not P/L's tho) were used on the "Burlington Railroad" Harry and probably other Railroad's as well.

So Bila is mine RRG? I understand being a PL that it would not be used on the railroad but it does have the micrometer regulator and it does say "Adjusted" and "Safety Pinion" and even says "Anti-Magnetic" on it so would it be the same quality as the RRG's just not authorized to be used because it was a PL?

You are correct Harry, great quality RR Grade and very nice to look at, winner, winner

Whooo Hooo thanks Bila! I like the dial and hands. I don't like the brass case and since the case is not the original case I will put it in a coin or GF'd hunter case.

Harry take a look at this one offered for sale by -ngupaan {this seller is Bila } a low serial and nice case . I have several Peoria's under the non magnetic label , but wanted to spread out to Independent and fredonia , I have missed several independents , I am looking for the one with the different color balance arm .
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scarce...a:g:fP0AAOSwnbZYEbm7

Morning Kevin,

Yes that is a nice Fredonia Bila has for sale. Yes I have one Peoria under the non magnetic label also. I have never seen an Independent for sale much less one with a different colored balance arm.

Harry the independents are interesting because they used everything , the howard bros were very thrifty , under the independent banner they used us watch co , hampdens marked lakeshore ,and fredonia , and i thought illinos with a gilt plate and nickel balance cock { I am a little fuzzy on this }

Yes Kevin I believe your are correct. Even Fredonia used watches made by other manufactures. I saw a Fredonia made by Hampden the other day. In fact from what I can see in The Price Guide some of the Independent Watch Co. watches look just like the California Watch co. watches which look just like the Cornell Watch Co watches for good reason because they all were connected by reorganizations.

When Fredonia was sold to Peoria Watch company Peoria started selling to Non Magnectic. According to The Price Guide only about 3000 Peoria 15j movements were made but then it goes on to say 47,000 total production so I am assuming the rest were Non-Magnetic watches.

The price guide for Peoria only traces it's history back to Independent but but if you continue following Independent you can trace it back to California Watch Co and then to Cornell Watch Co. and the watch all look alike. Then if you continue following the history you see that the Cornell Watch Co. was formed from the Newark Watch Co. and if you look at the Newark Watch Co. movements they are the same as all the others.

Now all these movements are cut and dried meaning if they are company names movements you know what it is. However when you move into the PL movements it can get very difficult to tell which one you have.