Elgin 18s, Grade 181,21 jewels, Model 7,Class 65
PW/LS, S/N 8186357=1899. 6,000 Made

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8186357

Nice one Roger...

Nothing better than adding a new 18s pocket watch to the collection, is there?

Regards! Mark

You're right Mark. Taking advantage of the price
downturn to upgrade my collection. Some bargains
out there now!
Roger

Wow that is a nice one Roger!

Harry

Thanks Harry
Roger

Really nice Roger! I recently got one just like it, same dial as yours.Mine is a 7 mil. SN.These are a beautiful movement! Mine has a combination bright nickel and a frosted look around the outside, does yours? You did good! Ted.

Thanks Ted, I want to say yes to the frosted
appearance. But then I am not sure. If it does it is
very lite as compared to a Waltham I have.

Roger

That is a great watch, I was unaware that so few were actually made. I have one in my collection that I have had for several years now, just a few number away from yours with a sn of 8186443. Mine has a flip out case and the rn dial. a few minor hl's that would likely watch out.
Bill

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Nice watch Bill! The one I have is a 7 mil. S.N., and it has meantime screws in the balance which is unusual for an Elgin. I was wondering if yours and Roger's have them. Just curious. Thanks, Ted.

Hi Ted, It appears from what I gather that mine has mean time screws on the balance. I say that only because I looked up what they were, and it stated they were longer and pointed at the end, and I see a couple of them on the balance.
Bill

Thanks Bill. Apparently all 181's must have them.Further proof that they were a top-of-line Elgin! From what I've seen, very few Elgin grades had them. Take care,Ted.

Yes Ted mine has them.

Thanks Roger!

Nice One Roger !!

regards,
bb

Thanks Buster

Depending on the the serial number it may look a lot like a grade 150. Elgin was caught on the wrong side of the RR regulations when the grade 149/150 was introduced the 149 hunter was lever set and the 150 open face was pendant set after 1895 the rules were changing and Elgin had to adjust so that is why you see grades 277s which were originally pendant set and then later pulled from inventory and machined to be a lever set. You will see ads in the late 1890's early 1900's that show a OF pendant set, OF lever set and a hunter. The dmk originally looked like a 150 dmk but you see a transition in the dmk in later serial numbers. The 181 was the best Elgin had to offer in 18 size until the 18s 3/4 plates came out.

If you look at the serial number for the 150 and 181 they ended around 8,490,xxx the 214 started at 8,400,xxx with a run of 2000. The grade 149 continued up into the 12,xxx,xxx range but later went from being a blank plate to being called a Father Time and this happened around 8,480,xxx and you see the Father Time grade 252 and this happened around 8,736,000. So probably the 252 is a 181 named to comply with the newer regulations related to the movement being named or the grade stamped on the plates. The 149FT and 252FT ended around the same time.

I have sold these thru the years without really knowing how special they really are

OK I found another one in my inventory...
#7458704 from 1897

Neat OF Roman DS dial which I'm sure is original

I was GOING to put it in a nice GF case or a 4 oz sterling case I have, thinking someone along the lines had swapped cases, but got to looking at it
and this FAHYS N0. 1 ORE SILVER Case looks like it MAY be original to the watch!

Case condition mirrors watch condition both appear to have little use.

I see no other screw marks, QUESTION: Do you guys think this No 1 Fahys Case would have been around in 1897 and could it well be original?

Sure GF or sterling would be nicer but if this case housed this fine gentleman for all this time who am I to change anything?

What do you think?

Tom, no doubt that case would have been around in
1897. Whether original to the watch,who knows but
could very well be seeing no other case screw marks.
Nice watch

Roger

You will also notice the dmk is different to the prior two, serial number is also lower but if someone posts a grade 150 around the same serial number you will see it will look nearly identical. you will see there were two low runs in the 7,1xx.xxx range then a big run of 2000 which was in the 7,4xx,xxx range then the last runs were in the 8M range. The grade 181 is often overlook but would have been the best Elgin had to offer at one time then those were eclipsed by the 18s 3/4 plates.

Do you guys think that case was one that could be had at the jewelers around that time? Not too old?
I did notice not as nicely damaskeened as Roger's watch I originally thought it WAS a 150 until I ran #.

If case looks right i'll leave it

For the record the correct dial for the 181 in the earlier serial range would be the >>Elgin<< in fancy script and the little filigrees on each side. The Roman numeral DS is also correct, you see this on the 150 also in the early versions but once the RR rules changed and were in force you see in the later serial range Arabic DS dials. All 149,150,181, and 277s had DS dials unless they sport the fancy glass dials.

Nice 181 Tom! Mine is 7458431, and has the same damaskeen pattern as yours, close in serial number.Looks like yours has a frosted look around the outside edge as does mine. Thanks for showing it! Ted.

I have an original combination 17 jewel grade 180 B.W. Raymond about the same age.It has a Fahys No.1 gold filled case of the same style as the the one on Tom's 181.It too has no other screw marks.It shows brass in some spots, but I can't bring myself to recasing it!