Some time ago, I acquired a watch that was discussed here. A Hamilton 960 in a Hamilton Display case. The oddity was that the dial has a logo for A.K. Jobe (a jeweler in Water Valley, Miss. and Jackson, Tenn. The movement is also marked A.K. Jobe. The logo is in the style of the Ball Trademark RR dials, with the word Ball replaced by A. K. Jobe. There was some speculation about how such a dial could have come out of the factory, and what Ball would have thought about it (not to say *do* about it). It's a pretty clear case of Trademark violattion.

I just got around to having it serviced. The person doing the repairs (our very own Rob Carter) noticed that, under strong light, you can see another dial pattern. Among other things, there is the name J.E. Bull in an arch at the top of the dial, some sort of machinery - and text using the abbreviation O.R.T.

I'll be trying to make decent pictures showing this underpainting.

The question is: is there anyone out there with certified skills in removing one layer of paint to reveal what's underneath? I'm not really sure I want to do this, but I'm looking for options. It may be that the unusual A.K. Jobe dial is more interesting (and valuable, to the right buyer) than the O.R.T. dial.

This weekend, I'll be meeting someone who *may* be related to A.K. Jobe. I'll see what, if anything, he knows about these issues.

Current thinking is that the brotherhood markings were painted AFTER the A.K. Jobe markings (in the style of the Ball Trademark). These were somehow removed (or just came off?) leaving subtle changes in the glaze of the original dial that shows up only under strong direct light. I have a report that many (all?) A.K. Jobe dials seen so far had similar "ghost" markings - and *none* known have surviving brotherhood markings.

Does anyone have a counterexample?

In any event, I won't be trying to "fix" this - no matter what the truth, it makes too good a story.

Oh yes - there was a typo in the original post - this is an 18s Hamilton 940 (movement marked A.K. Jobe/Water Valley, Miss. and Jackson, Tenn.) and NOT a 960. Fumble fingers...

Currently housed in a nice Hamilton display case with a glass back. I'll be showing it this weekend to someone who *may* be a descendant of A.K. Jobe. Recently serviced and keeping perfect time.

I have a couple AK Jobe Dialed watches. I'll try to make it to the bank tomorrow. To get them.

I'm eager to see if Eugene's A.K. Jobe dials are:

a) unaltered
b) have additional brotherhood markings, or
c) HAD additional markings, which have been removed

To check for c), shine a very strong direct light straight down on the dial. Perhaps move the light on/off the dial to see if the appearance changes.

On mine, the markings are completely invisible under normal viewing conditions.

I finally got the bank to pull my 2 A K Jobe watches.

The movement is marked AK Jobe. Jackson Tenn. Water Valley Miss.

17 Jewel Special Adjusted 1077826 it is a Hampden.

[See this discussion: I need to find out the grade.]

Here is the dial on the B W Raymond.

The b w Raymond

Interesting. Your A.K. Jobe dial is a different style. I will try to post decent images - but for now I'll just say that the Jobe logo on mine looks like a Ball logo. The other difference is that my movement is marked as an A.K. Jobe - yours have no indication of "A.K. Jobe" engraved on the movements.

At first glance, this says to me that what you have are standard movements with an A.K.Jobe dial, whereas what I have is a Hamilton movement with a private label marking on the movement *and* on the dial. With the extra complications of the resemblence to a Ball dial and the "ghost" Brotherhood markings.

I'll try to get images posted...realSoonNow.

[If I have mis-characterized what I see in your images, I apologize. Have you examined the dials under strong direct light? Do you see any "ghosts"?]

Ah...now I see an A K Jobe marking on the first example. For some reason, the full image of the dial on the first one is not coming through to me.

Is there an A K Jobe marking anywhere on the B W Raymond movement?

Can you please repost the FIRST image (the dial side of the first A K Jobe example)? The B W Raymond images both come through fine - but the very first dial image did not. I'm curious to see what the dial looks like.

Here is the dial:

And here is the display back. Not very helpful for showing the markings - I'll try for a better shot of the movement, tonight:

Have you had the dial off your watch. To look at the back.

Just a little info on that Hampden Gene, Grade 67 model 3, production year around 1898. Total production just under 6,000, there were 2 variations in finish, your variation made up a total of approximately 4,000 of the 6,000.

Cheers,
Bila

Thanks

No - I haven't seen the back of the dial.