I just purchased this 23j Hampden Grade 104 SR Hunter on Ebay. All I know it is rare and that about 400 blocked serial numbers were reserved for it.

The serial number is 1,899,175--a Tu-Tone mvt

Any additional information would be greatly appreciated.

Bob
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&ss...0130520510&rd=1&rd=1

Dial and case

Would this Hampden Hunter be considered a RR approved watch.

bob

You might enjoy What is a Railroad Watch? at http://www.pockethorology.org/Railroad/Railroad.htm

Hunter watches were eventually not allowed on most railroads, but many were allowed during the early years. Your watch dates about 1905, so I would say no.

This watch is so special, who cares if it was railroad approved?

Don

Hi Bob,

Like others have said... Who cares if this was railroad approved... That is one nice Hampden! A little TLC and a COA "tuneup" should have it in very fine condition. I think you got a great buy!

Joe

Bob,

IMHO you made a good purchase at a most attractive price.
We had 5 examples (now with yours, six) of the Model 4 in our database, all in the 1,899,101 to 1,899,400 range.

With the estimated production date in the 1903 to 1905 time period, I believe that you watch would most certainly have been accepted for railroad service at the time it was built. We have railroad inspection cards dating from 1942 with the narration "Hunting or open face" on them. Granted that was during the dark days of WWII when almost anything that could keep dependable time was being sought for war service, but it shows that hunting watches were more widely used than was thought in years past.

Your Hampden even forshadows the (mythical?) Ball Hampden watches in rarity and quality. Moreover, I admire the Hamdens in their own right and This costly attempt by Hamden to prove their mettle matching the excesses of the "Big Kids" only goes to show how desperate some watch makers were at that time. The "last laugh" is that the series VII Hampden design watch had the longest continuous unmodified run of any American watch movement, albeit finally ending at Moscow Watch Factory #1. (I have examples of those from 1906 through 1960).

Looks like you got a real deal on a fine watch.

A real beauty and uncommon, what more could one ask for?!

Don
Thank you for the link to what is a RR watch.
I found it very interesting.

After reading it I went back to the Hampden Watch Co. Book and found a 1905 ad on page 67 that advertises the Grade 104 in both open face and hunter and says GUARANTEED TO PASS RAILROAD INSPECTION. So I guess that some railroads were accepting the 104 Hunter.

Ed and Lindell
Thank you for the information about how few examples are known.

Bob

I have two more questions about my watch.

1) How does the quality of this watch compare to other 23j RR watches by Howard,Hamilton,Illinois and Elgin being made at the same time.

2) Why is there so little interest in 23j Hampdens such as the Grade 104 and Special Railroad that I recently acquired? Lindell pointed out that if my Hampden 104 was a Hamilton 951 it would be a $10K watch and I paid $400 for my Hampden.

Bob

Bob,
Q #1
I would rate the quality of the SR grade Hampdens as about on a par with the Elgin, and just a shade inferior to the top of the line Hamilton, Illinois and (Keystone) Howards. Please realize that this is just my personal and very subjective opinion.

Q #2
Here I think that a lot of the difference is published data. Years ago, when many of the current perceptions about different makes of watches were being formed by collectors, relatively little was known about Hampdens. While they were still being produced they received a lot of negative press, often as a result of a combined effort by the other watch companies. Hampden (read: John C. Dueber) wouldn't play ball with the other major manufacturers and the result was a great deal of animosity (and lawsuits).

When Hampden went under and was sold to the Soviet Union in 1930, all of the production records vanished. Thus collectors had no idea how many of each grade of watch were ever produced, and for decades only the most dedicated collectors could gain enough experience to even get a feel for relative scarcity. Then along came Jim Hernick and Bob Arnold and their seminal book on Hampden. This has given us an excellent baseline, which is still being used to develop a better picture of what Hampden actually produced. Its an ongoing effort but the timing ofv their demise left Hampden far behind in the desireability area of American watch collecting.

Ed
Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

When the Hampden Watch Co. book came out it opened my eyes to 12 size grades I had never heard of.

I then tried to estimate relative scarcity by estimating the potential size of reserved production numbers. Even now most people don't realise how scarce many of the Hampden grades are.

UPDATE--104 23j Hunter arrived

THE BAD
The plates were severely cleaned at one point and no longer shine.
The watch was recased.
The end of the lever is almost under the bezel and hard to pull out.

THE GOOD
The dial is in perfect condition--the apparent hairlines were shadows from the broken crystal
The case is in decent shape.

I think I will keep the watch.
Bob

Robert,
I would love to see a picture of the movement, even without the shine. Thank you for the post, I liked reading all the great information about the Hampdens. I have seen many that have caught my eye lately, and they have given me a new intrest in them.

Nice information to add to the Hampden list!