I am the new owner of a Howard 16 size, open face, stem wind, lever set pocket watch SN 983,358. Dates to 1909 - 1912

For the past day or so, I have been looking at Howard movements on the internet to see if I can find a similar piece.

With some success, but mine has "No. 2" engraved on one of the plates.

Can anyone help me with what that means? Much appreciated and thanks!

The 2013 Complete Price Guide to Watches shows No.'s 0, 1, 5, and 10 but there may be others.

Are you able to post pictures of your watch?

I am going to assume it looks something like this. Keystone Howard 1100348

And the dial.

Thanks, Lorne.

The dial/hands are close; black 24 hr chapter though.

The movement is not the same. Mine has 2 plates, looks very similar to Series 7 in the guide.

Thanks, Nick

There are several styles of 24hr. dials on these. Predominantly on the ones with No. rather than Series.

I read somewhere it was because Cdn. railways required a number, don't know that for sure.

Is it in a Howard case?

We need pictures.

Thanks, Lorne.

I will see if I can do pictures, but the case is a peach if you like plain backs, and it is Keystone.

It has the big E HOWARD WATCH CO BOSTON etc aroun the inside. Looks original to the watch; I understand these were factory cased.

Back to the "No. 2". I see yours has "No. 10". Any idea what these mean?

Thanks.

Nick, Lornes VERY nice Series 2 pictured above is a so-called "Keystone Howard"and is a 21j, bridge design movement. Your Howard, however, has a 3/4 plate movement design, and is a 17j model movement like the Series 7 you referred to in the price guide. Yours is a fine watch, adjusted to temp, isochronism, 5 positions, and double roller. The lever set feature is a big plus. It should have parallel bar damaskeening.

Nick. the "No." Keystone-Howard is a Canadian thing that nobody has been able to adequately explain but as you see below no "Series" Howards were accepted.


This screen shot is of K/Howards approved for service on the CPR from a Canadian Rail Magazine #424. I have a PDF file of it and will post as soon as I can find the bloody thing.

EDIT: I found it on-line: Canadian Rail #424

Thanks so much, gentlemen. I believe you have nailed it perfectly.

It is very nice to know the CPR - Canadian connection. That fits; I found it in Ottawa.

It has a great look all around, keeps good time. Plain case and a round bow, so a "turn of the century" appearance that I like. One minor case ding, no cracks.

Many thanks again for all the help.

Lorne, a great big thanks for posting the link to that article. Great stuff. Here's my Howard No 1, fwiw:

...and the dial. Really nice dial on yours, Lorne.

Thanks Ralph, I like your dial as much as I do mine.

Here is some more light reading for you.

Canadian Rail #343

Wow! Thanks again for the link. I had no idea that expo rail had this material on their site. Guess I'll have to free up some reading time. Do you have any other specific pw links on that site?

Ralph

Nick,

This discussion illustrates the importance of two "musts" for newbies:

1. Read your Shugart Complete Guide to Watches.

2. Post pictures.

Ralph, this is a link to the search page. "pocket watch" will get you 14 results. Over 500 copies in which to search for whatever you may want.

exporail.org - Canadian Rail Search Page

Nick, when you do post pictures on this site it makes it so much easier to find something later if you post the watch serial number:

Posting Guidelines for Watches

Posting Images

Excellent! I'll definitely bookmark that link. Thanks Lorne.

Monsieur Nick, does your watch have a single sunk, or a double sunk dial. I don't need a picture of it, but I would like to see a picture of your movement.

Hello, Mike.

I will eventually figure out the picture thing, but the dial is double sunk, exactly the one posted just above but with a slightly different seconds hand.

Those Canadian rail magazine references Lorne posted are really great. There is a very good article on the history of railroad time standards with references to CPR and CN. With pictures, no less.

I sure appreciate all the info.

Just a note on this link that I posted earlier in the thread:

Canadian Rail #424

The first date it shows is APPROVED POCKET WATCHES IN CP RAIL SERVICE AS OF OCTOBER 1, 1899.

Then it goes on to list them but includes watches such as the Keystone Howards which were made by a company that wasn't even in business until 1903.

The next year shown is 1928. It seems to me there should have been another year included between 1899 and 1928.

Printing error?