This is another $80 special that I picked up off ebay, while not nearly as nice as the Elgin 16s 19j BWR that I picked up at the same price this one is still a pretty decent watch. It had a DS montgomery dial that was a disaster but I had an extra DS red 5 min marker dial that is time correct. The case has a few back depressions but the only brass showing is a few slivers on the bottom of the case.

The Hampden database shows about shows about 4,300 of this version made so it wasn't a high production watch. It will need a COA and a staff but otherwise the movement is in good condition except for some slight corrosion on the regulator.

Actually due to its rarity, I would put this "on par" with the early 19J Elgins fitted a likrwise Jewelled Motor. In a past post on this movement, I posited that the rarity may have been due to Mr. Deuber catching himself "sleeping at the switch" and waking up to the fact that Mfg. was making a very high grade 19J movement with a few too many parts. You can peruse that discussion with some detailed pictures at;
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...131061713#6131061713

Claude -

Nice buy for 80...

David I have the model 5 which is a nice watch and after reading your article I decided to pick up the model 4 version to go with the model 5. When it was mentioned that it was not running I figured the most typical reason is a broken staff so I added that to what I was willing to bid on it along with the fact that I already had a nice correct DS dial to work with.

I don't mind bottom-feeding in the 17-19j range since sometimes I get lucky, especially like the Elgin 455 BWR, only cost was a glass crystal and cleaning the case.

My biggest win in the lower cost 17-19j range is a 17j Elgin grade 370 BWR that is pendant set (all numbers match with absolutely no evidence of it being altered in any way). I have yet to see another grade 370 pendant set.

Thanks Jon I will pick up high grade 21/23 jewel watches but I have no problem picking up watches in the 17-19j range depending on the production numbers and price.

Elgins are my favorite but Hampden fall in at second, I like the model 5 versions better but I try to pair them up, as in this case Railway model 4/5, 105 model 4/5 so on. I have the model 5 21j "New Railway" but the 23j model 5 "Special Railway" are hard to come by, they don't show up that often.

Claude, Interesting idea, pairing up model 4 and 5 of the various grades, how about open face and hunters also.

Gary

I try to do that also, I have a McKinley hunter and a 105 hunter, still working on the others. I try to do that also with Elgin grades where a open face and hunter face version exist.

Hi Claude,You have a really fine 19j Railway. I really like the 19j watches and Dave Abbe and I have had fun talking about the 19j model 4 Hampdens and the idea the John Dueber goofed when he let that one go to production. I am currently doing an inventory of my watches and I have several model 4 and model 5 19j Railways. I do not have a 19j Railway hunter and never thought they were produced in model 4 or 5 16s Hampdens so if anyone knows of one I would love to hear about it. The fun thing about Hampdens is that they are much under appreciated and in terms of rarity undervalued. The 19j model 4 is much rarer than the 19j Bunn of the same period and as well made in my opinion.

I got lucky on the price because people avoided it because of the crappy dial. I have seen the 21j 105/McKinley in hunter version but I can't recall seeing any 19j hunters.

I will have to look through my stash of Hampdens to see what I have and comment back.

My model 5 19j