I have been out and just found this old watch
it is marked Appleton Tracy & Co, Waltham, what attracted me was the low serial No 84833 (well low for me) so it must be old I cant find it in Shugart I think it is a 17J??, not marked but case feel like silver opens well and in good condition. Can you tell me more and of course a value?, is it worthy of selling here in our auction or is it E bay junk?

Thanks

Chris Abell

side

Chris Abell

face re try

Chris Abell

nice patternation inside cover also

Very nice watch Chris,

I believe it is a 1857 model and it would be 15j. I cant offer much more than that as I am no Waltham expert. It does appear as the winding arbor housing is missing. Other than that it looks good to me.

Aaron
Casual junk collector

The Shugart give a date of 1863 (1st year Civil war?) I just noticed the hairspring is anchored not to the cock as normal, just as well I looked before I tear it apart in the name of servicing.
Aaron send $500 and I wont work on it!.

Chris Abell

i am not an expert on these, but....

hairspring anchor looks normal....

yes, the guard around the winding arbor is missing....

but it sure looks nice.

So far from that link I found the handwritten records and mine is there for Aug 1863. I have looked in my shugart No 23, it seems to be a 20 size? now on page 107 I think it maybe one of those but not certain can anyone narrow it down a bit more? would anyone have a winding sleeve and a second hand they could sell me? and 1 screw for sleeve.

Chris Abell

from what I can tell it very close to a model 1857 but they are smaller and slightyl different.

Chris Abell

Chris -

Your watch is an 1857 Model Waltham and is an 18 size. Waltham did make a 20 size, and some of these were marked "Appleton, Tracy, & Co.", but these are a 3/4 plate rather than a full plate design.

Waltham began using the "Appleton, Tracy, & Co." grade name on the 1857 model in the five-thousand serial number range and continued using this grade name for many years and through several sizes and a number of different models.

As far as finding a value in Shugart's book, the listing that fits your watch would be the 15J, M#1857, KW listing on page 108 of the 2003 edition.

In reality though civil-war era watches (particularly those in original condition) do bring more than later examples (with the price gradually increasing as the serial number decreases), and the listings in Shugart's book make no mention of this. So this guide is probably not your best bet for putting an accurate price on this particular watch.

Fred

My brother,Doug,just bought a William Ellery Waltham. It's an 1862,with a serial number of 52757 and it went for $495. So you want to sell your watch for $500,we'll take it.These low serial numbers are very interesting watches,and Appleton Tracy is a good quality watch.It would make a great addition to our Waltham collection. Aaron lives just down the road and he can come over and vist it any time he wants. Ken and Doug Lynn.

Dear Ken,

Thank you for you very generous offer which I am seriously considering and will be in contact today. I just want to ask another question about the watch and it size, see photo, when I place my trusty old gauge across the face which id hard to get the right angle on form the picture (the face is the same size as, if not slightly smaller as that of the movement) it seems to exceed by one size division the 18, am I doing something wrong?.


Chris Abell

Chris,

This measuring method should work. You should measure the pillar plate -- the one that the dial is attached to. So, you measure the dial side.

Take off the bezel and mark the width of the plate (which might be slightly wider than the dial, on a piece of paper. Then check the width as marked on the paper, using your measuring tool (or scale which you sometimes see in watch books). You can measure more accurately, if you remove the movement from the case ... but be careful if you are not used to doing that.

If you become familiar with the visual comparison method ... checking the movement against photos or drawings in Shugart or some other watch book, you will not need to physically measure the movement.

If you buy from eBay, don't be surprised to see wrong sizes/measurements stated. It's always a good idea to see a photo of the movement and check it yourself against a reference book.

Glyndwr Meredith

Another related question....where does one find a guard for the case hole above the winding arbor? My son-in-law's Illinois keywind's case is missing it's guard, and I'd like to locate one for him. Thanks. Regards. Mark

NAWCC Member 157508
NAWCC-IHC Member 163

Dear Glyn, Thanks for you response, the book and everything else pointed to it being a S18 but seemed a little larger and was wondering if it was a 20 Size, or something odd like that. I since found out that this is what I would described as a transitional piece that was in fact slightly larger than the American standard commonly know today, hence its over size. Something to do with being similar to a typical Liverpool watch no doubt many explanations will follow.
thanks for the offers to buy the watch is now sold.

Chris Abell