I am looking at a Hamilton 941. From the pics it appears that it has been recased. How does that affect the value?

Welcome aboard IHC185 Richard.

Cases are tough. Of course original is always best, but that's often not an available option, and there's no set formula for determining value. I go for a replacement case that is period correct and try to avoid deeply gouged extra screw marks at least.

Just my opinion, nice hunter cases are getting harder to find. If the case is in good overall condition I wouldn't really worry. If the case has wear issues, missing bezel, doesn't close or open properly, more than one set of screw marks, winding or setting problems or just doesn't seem right, then you might be wise to pass, if it's priced right, you might want to consider it in the event you run across a nicer case you can use to recase the movement yourself.

Good question. I'll venture that "by the book" no {as you see in the Hamilton section of the book: "Watches listed in this book are priced at the collectible Trade Show level, as complete watches having an original 14k gold-filled case for stem-wind and key wind with silver case,... and with the entire original movement in good working order with no repairs needed."}
Of course there are exceptions of timepiece and person. Some folks are by the book and will never do it; some will do it if a) the movement is truly scarce and they really want it, or b) the new case is better than the last (sterling silver v. gold fill); and some don't much care because they know that cases wear out and movements count most.

You have to figure out where you fall in all that.

I bought a nicely recased Hamilton 943 almost a year ago, and I don't regret it because I haven't had another chance at one since. I might not feel the same over a larger production 941, so I guess I'm in the middle group.

kh

Thanks, I am normally pretty picky about the cases being original. But, the case on this 941 is from the same period. It looks great except for the craters left by the other movement. I recently purchased a Hamilton 990 that had been recased. That movement is kind of scarce so I didn't worry about the case. I am having trouble assessing the value of the 941.
Rick

Just a reminder: there were 25,702 941s made, if that helps in any way.
In comparison:
6,500 944s.
5,160 960s.
3,098 943s.
1,800 938s.
308 947s.

Just my opinion on this subject. I am home from surgical rehab and have always found this an interesting topic. In general I would want an original case. To me that means period correct, no extra screw marks and case wear that is appropriate for the condition of the movement. But------since American jeweled watches were not usually factory cased until the 20th century and since cases do wear out, get damaged, or fall out of fashion, a case with extra screw marks or of later manufacture should not be a deal breaker in most cases (pun intended). As a Hampden collector I always like Dueber cases, particularly the "Railway" marked cases. I have acquired several of those cases that held other makers movements and I have replaced those movements with Hampden movements. No deception intended, I just like Hampden movements in Railway cases.

I was wondering where you were, Deacon, after some silence from your end. I hope you are healing well.
You were my shoehorn into this group 'o guys. Happy New Year to you.

kh

Richard,

My way around this is to buy a lesser grade watch of the same make and model and do a heart transplant.

I recently picked up a grade 820 hunter in an open face case... The grade 820 had a total production of 360 units....

It took a few weeks, but I was able to find a grade 825 Hunter... (total production about 36,000 units) in a beautiful case.

The grade 820 and 825 are by the same maker, same chassis or model, same screw locations... same era...

The 820 now has a nice hunter case and the 825 sports an Open Face RR Conversion dial in the open face case.

Dials, hands and cases get jumbled up all the time by well meaning hobbyist trying to make a watch whole again.. or by sellers trying to make a quick buck.

I'm finding the solution above works well for hands and dials as well... the down side is that I have a lot of spare 7-15J movements that pretty much become spare parts for future projects.

On one hand, I have as much money and time in to some of my watches as if I had simply been patient enough to wait for a complete and correct watch to come along at the right price... but where is the sport in that???

This formula does not work for me for high production watches like the 21J Adj6p Crescent... the up-side is too low.

But it works great for low production number watches with more up-side.

Happy Hunting,

Paul

Richard,
Good luck of finding watches in their original case. I have been collecting watches for over 15 years and have a few in my collection that are all original but the majority have been recased.
Tony

Extra case marks do not bother me as much as wear
Just try to find as appropriate a case as you can, and in good condition and you'll be fine.

You can always "upgrade" as cases come along.

As with the dial discussions, people in general would rather have a cosmetically appealing watch
than a worn out or cracked up example. As with Tony, most of my collection is recased. But the recases are NICE

Consistent with Ed Parsons and Deacon's replies, very few watch makers actually made and sold "cased" watches . . . those who did usually marked the cases as something like "Elgin RR", and/or "Cased and timed by XXXXX" etc., etc., or such as some Hampden watches in Deuber cases, most 12s&16s Howard/Keystone, 16s Ball RRG watches, Early Waltham/A.W.C.Co. and Hamiltons of the post 1925 (or so) period.

In other cases (pun intended), my opinion is the term "original" can only apply to the case itself. The (possible) presence of other case marks besides those of the resident movement would be the signature of it's past resident movements and could lower the valuation.

A great deal of effort is expended by many collectors to get watches cased in period correct style cases, making those examples more valuable. However, "original" remains a misnomer excepting factory "cased and timed" movements.

I agree David.

I believe that the word "original" is way over used in this hobby. It took me a while to understand, but how do you really know if a watch is really original? Even if it is in the boxes and looks all original, is it really?

Regards,
Larry

I agree with Paul about doing a "heart transplant" to match up the case screw marks. I have an exceptionally nice gold filled Dueber case that had a 17j movement. I replaced it with a 21 jewel movement with the same case screw pattern. I see nothing wrong with that. The case is correct for the watch and period appropriate and that is about what I look for. I agree with Lawrence and Dave that "original" can be misleading. Of course, compared to the word "mint" used by some sellers original seems OK!.