ILLINOIS Grade 175, 17J, 16s, RR grade

The subject watch is given a line item on page 282 of Shugart's book, 2009 edition. This is evidently a 2-star watch if it has a RR inspector's name on the dial and the movement. So how is one supposed to know if such a watch with a name on the dial and movement is that of a RR inspector? Can anyone show a picture of such a watch? Thanks!

Mike

Mike

If I understand correctly what they mean is basically the watch has to meet railroad standards at the time & then be marked with the name of a railroad inspector. One example I have seen is a private label with A.N. Anderson Minneapolis Minn. I have looked for the photos but can't find it.

As the Megger's Ehrhrdt book states "There are many railroad watch inspectors listed that are not indicated as such by RRWI because of lack of information" (page 231.) The AN Anderson listed is one they denote as a RRWI.

That is one of the reason I have been trying to research watch inspectors to get as many of them identified as I can.

If you haven't looked at it, here is the list I have been working on;
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...86009181/m/310106501

That is also a reason I try to research any private label that someone posts here is maybe I will find a reference to them as being a watch inspector.

Hope this helps, I do have loaner watches that the cases have the railroad inspectors name on but the movements do not, most of the ones I have are Ball watches.

Now that I think about this I might have one that fits, it is a Ball Waltham & in a Ball Watch Company loaner case, so since Ball was a watch inspector & this is from his store with his name on the case I guess it would fit.

Tom

Actually in the "Strange" plate cuts, Illinois did this for Washington Watch Co. I attached some pictures of my 175 type Getty (actually a 172 but same appearance) as you asked for and a later Gr 230 model 7. Only 400 of the un-named Gr 175 were made without any name reference, but there is no record that ANY of the 175's were made as fully adjusted RR Grades. Therefore the RR Inspectors must have done something phenominal to them after delivery. On the other hand all of these are "1 star" rare or better.

Tom I think I have posted my Elgin AN Anderson but if you can't find it I can post it later. As far as I know the watches that A.N. Anderson sold were RR approved watches (not for all RR's I don't think)

Thanks Claude, I found it by looking under your posts, for some strange reason I can't get it to come up when I search "anderson"

So he is the link to the photos of it;
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...=841109102#841109102

Tom

Tom,
THANK YOU very much for your informative reply. The next 2 pictures are an example of the watch markings I am talking about with a name on the movement and dial. Somehow, I think this watch is a case of "the only substitute for money is knowledge" . i.e. it should be valued as a plain vsnilla 17j Illinois watch. What do you and others think?
Mike

Illinois 16s, Grade 175

I must have looked that watch up before, did you buy it off ebay?

Anyway it appears that the jeweler was a John C. Whittlesey bor about 1854. In 1870 he was in Norwich Connecticut working as an apprentice to a jeweler.

In 1880 he was in Vernon Tolland County Conn. which is the same county as Rockville & was listed as watchmaker.

In the 1880's & 1890's city directories he is listed as a jeweler for both Vernon & Rockville.

In my list of railroad inspectors & also Greg Frauenhoff's list I don't see him listed but that doesn't mean he wasn't. Greg's book lists about 1000 inspectors that he found & I have found about another 1000 that he didn't & I am sure there was probably at least another 5000 to 10000 we don't have.

Looking on the web Rockville & Vernon had several railroads going through there including the Rockville Railroad, one site I looked at said in 1893 14 passenger trains a day stopped in Vernon.

Tom

As far as your watch goes, I am like David & the Getty movements are one of my favorites. I am sure I must have considered bidding on it since I had looked it up before.

Does the case look original to the movement? Do you see a series of jewelers marks in the back?

Tom

Tom, Yes, off Ebay seller 4-5 days ago...the silveroid case is not original... no jewelers marks on backside.I will say that this watch is keeping EXCELLENT time!

I have another question: what did a 'RR inspector' do? Thd term appears very generic. Is it understood that a RR inspector inspects watches and timing here? Or could a RR inspector inspect just about anything? Did RR's keep lists of inspectors that were approved to service watches?

Mike

Good find, I wished I could have gotten it but I al always finding more than I can afford.

Railroad watch inspectors or some times called time inspectors were employed several different ways over the years with different railroads.

Since the railroads were required to set standards as to the keeping of time because as then & now the trains ran on a time schedule, with many areas of the country with only single tracks the trains had to be in a certain location at a certain time to avoid collision with each other. Also the workman out servicing the tracks, bridges etc. had to be aware of the time when trains were due in their area.

As I am sure you have read & if not there is a lot of information here on Webb C. Ball & the time inspection standards he created.

Since the railroads required the watches carried by it's personnel had to meet certain standards the watches were required to be inspected at regular intervals, and that created the need for people qualified to inspect, adjust & repair the watches. Some watch inspectors also inspected & adjusted the clocks at the rail stations since they had to be accurate too.

There were several ways tried with the inspection system. Jewelers & watch makers across the area serviced by a railroad were accepted as inspectors if they met the requirements. A lot of time there was no pay involved but the watch inspector would receive a free pass on the railroad & it also helped in their sales or watches since it brought them into daily contact with people always needing watches.

Some inspectors were assigned certain areas & even had to travel to areas where there were no inspectors available.

At time there were complaints that the contracted jewelers were doing the inspection to only sell their watches & railroad employees complained that their watches were never good enough & the inspector wouldn't pass them until they bought a watch from him.

Some railroads for a time actually hired their own watch inspectors who traveled the rails servicing the railroad watches but most companies gave up on the expense of such a system & went back to the local inspectors.

Each railroad employee had to have a inspected watch if his job description covered it, he also carried a card on him that showed the dates his watch was inspected & if it passed the standards. If he failed to have either he could be sent home & be fired or some other punishment.

The inspectors were also required to have loaner watches that they would loan out if an railroad employees watch was going to be kept for repair or service, there was also a loaner card that went with the watch to show that it meet the standards. These watches were loaned out free of charge but the employees had to pay out of their own pocket for the repair or servicing of the watches, just like they were required to purchase the watches.

I will look through some of the articles & ads I have found about the inspectors & post a few of them.

Also I didn't write the book on this subject & could be wrong on some or all points, the above information is just what I have gathered reading about this subject & trying to gather the names of the inspectors.

The below is an ad for a jeweler in Idaho Falls Idaho from 1950

Tom

This is from a newspaper in Jan 4, 1911 in Stevens Point Wi.

Here is his ad from 1924

This is just a part of an article from 1913 in Anaconda Montana

From Deming NM 1923

Dec 27, 1960 Guthrie Iowa

Referencing the article 'From Deming NM 1923' just above, I'm wondering what happened to the famous Pope collection in San Francisco. Any knowledge of that, Tom?

kh